Bukhu Ganburged Transcript
Episode Link Video and Podcast
Hi, you're listening to Conversations with Musicians, with Leah Roseman. If you've never heard the Virtuoso Mongolian harmonic overtone throat singing of Bukhu Ganburged before, you'll be wondering what you just heard. I'm thrilled to be able to bring you this special music, and Bukhu's personal story of growing up in Mongolia and emigrating to Australia. Bukhu's audio was captured by his phone directly in Australia. I generally avoid recording over the internet, but the mic placement wasn't ideal to capture the beautiful complexities of both the horsehead fiddle performances and Bukhu's singing. However, he has also allowed me to share a couple of his recordings, both solo and with his group, Equus. So you'll be able to hear him explain about different regional styles of singing and playing, as well as hear the studio quality recordings. And I encourage you to listen to Bukhu's albums wherever you listen to your music.
Like all my episodes, this is available as both a video with closed captions, and a podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. The link to my website, leahroseman.com, is in the description. Please do consider supporting this series. You'll find my support page linked as well, and every dollar helps. At the beginning of this episode, Bukhu explains how he learned overtone throat singing and demonstrates different styles. You'll then hear some incredible music on morin khuur, the horsehead fiddle, and learn about Mongolian culture and Bukhu's experiences in Australia, where he's gone from busking on the street to performing at the Sydney Opera House and being featured on The Voice. Now let's get to the episode.
Hi, Bukhu, thanks so much for joining me here today.
Thank you very much for having me.
I've been listening a lot to your music, your solo music, and with your groups, and we're going to get into your music career, but I know you are going to do a mini workshop for us today, so if you want to get right into it, that would be wonderful.
Let's do it. I'll try my best, and yeah, I'm happy to a little bit do a workshop with... Share it around the world, who wants to a little bit know about the Mongolian culture and the instrument, which is called morin khuur, and of course, khoomei, Mongolian throat singing. Yeah.
So did you start singing when you were... This official training at the conservatory?
No, this is actually self-taught.
Okay.
That time, it's really rare if you play instrument and same time doing throat singing. It's almost like a... It's less than ten people who can do that. It sounds beautiful. And then once I turn to 15 years old, I decide to learn, I definitely have to learn. I couldn't find any teachers because that time was very difficult to find teachers. And then I decided to go to Countryside, which is, the throat singing originated in that area. I choose that [inaudible] to get there and then I try to catch the natural... The herders. They can do throat singing. And I ask many questions, "How you do that?" And then they don't have teaching skills. That's why they just, "Oh, you just put your tongue like that and then it comes automatically." And then I said, "Oh, I can't do that." "No, I can't explain. I'm born with it," most of the...
And then I just write on my diary, how they put in the tongue position, how they work with their mouth and how they create sound box from inside the mouth, how they can... Four, five different styles of the throat singing. As soon as I got all the information, I just went back to capital city and I tried to listen the cassette tape from the national radio of Ulaanbaatar and then, lucky they actually gave me a copy of the cassette tape. And then I'm listening and read my diary and then I start. Taught by myself. And that was actually really successful. And it's really complicated when you don't know the beginning. You can't put- I've got a record tape, cassette tape, and then yeah, start trying to sing. The very first time was difficult. It sounds like a horrible sound. If you learned wrong way, you can damage your vocal cord as well, and a little bit brain damage because it's pushing and lots of high pressure around here. If all the pressure going up, it's blood pressure going up to your brain, it gives you the dizzy. It's almost like dizzy, like falling off. That kind of problems happened to me and then I just realized, yeah, have to be very slow down and learn step-by-step. Took me five years to learn and to complete learn.
Yeah, I'm going to show you the first thing now. This is my normal voice, I'm singing.
Before you start learn throat singing, actually, your breath is very important. When you breathe in, you not actually breathe from the chest. Most people when they breathe, like that, not here. Always, the breath has to be go down into your stomach. And then this is your trigger. You're always tight and your throat like that, squeeze it like that. And then it sounds like tense, come out. You wouldn't let the power let it out. You compress it down. That squeezes, helps to slow down.
This sound, this is first style, it's called Shaha, which is tightening style. Second style, it's called iskreh. You'll make two notes, same time, from your mouth. (singing) And another style, it's called hashkira, which is undertone. It's graveling. It's a little bit similar sound as like Australian didgeridoo. (singing) It's more graveling. So you can... All the styles, you can say any words.(singing "How are you, where you come from? )You can do, any sound.
(singing Hey, how are you? Where you came from?)
See? And then you can do, yeah, everything's possible. And another style. It's called the nose. It's all sounds coming from your nose. (singing)Okay. And then another style, you can make a sound from your ear. No, I'm kidding. Yeah. And then it's all the styles combine each other, and then all in procession, happen. And I'm going to show you how the fiddle and throat singing combine each other.(music)
Thank you. So beautiful. And powerful.
Thank you very much.
Now I know your albums are available on streaming services, but I didn't see any of your solo stuff on Bandcamp. Are you going to put any of it up there?
Yeah, I did, actually.
Did you?
Not on Bandcamp, actually. Except Bandcamp, other streaming platforms, it's available. If you type Bukhu, and then-
Yeah, I love being able to buy albums on Bandcamp and the money actually goes to the musician, instead of...
I know, I know.
Yeah. So on Bandcamp, your group, Equus, that are-
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So I bought that album on Bandcamp. Great.
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
And you have another one you didn't remember making, Driftwood, with a Dutch musician, in 2015. Hiske Weijers I don't know how to pronounce her name. Singer. Maybe it was a recording session and you don't remember.
Okay. What's his name?
Hiske and then it's W-E-I-J-E-(R)-S.
Ah, Hiske. Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dutch. Yeah, she's... Yeah, it's a long, long time ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's on Bandcamp. I bought that album, too.
Okay. I even didn't hear any of the music, actually. Maybe I can have a listen. And yeah, if you listen stream music, you can listen from Spotify or something like that. Maybe I should think about it, put it on the Bandcamp as well. Yeah.
You should. Yeah. And Equus, that's such a cool group. Do you want to speak to that a little bit?
So we met, all the members, we actually... The first time in Queensland, the festival called Woodford. I think it's in 2011. Every band members, they actually played in different bands. I was actually performing my solo. And then after I performed and then everyone just loved to... My children's coming. Everyone just come to me and then say, "Hey, can I join? And then we can make a band." And then it's turned a four piece band, and me and John Robinson is a string instrument player, and then Peter Kennard is a double... No, the percussionist. And Bertie McMahon is a double bass player. And it's actually such a beautiful combination for musicians. And this year, actually we are going to Woodford. Not going to, but we just send the application to everyone, and we actually bring big groups. It's 20 young adult choirs, Syndey's children's choirs. They're actually performing with us, and yeah. Yeah. And it's so good. We next, in the future maybe we're coming down to Canada.
Yeah, that'd be amazing.
This next recording is with the group, Equus, and they're performing Huurhun Haliun.(music)
Hi. Just a quick break from the episode. I'm an independent podcaster and I really do need my listeners help. Please consider buying me a coffee. The link to my Ko-fi page is in the description. Every dollar helps me cover the costs of this huge project. Thanks so much.
So I was born in Mongolia and raised in Mongolia and I moved to Australia in 2009. And that time, actually, I find myself to not share my knowledge of my education plus self experience, because in Australia it's such a beautiful multicultural diversity. And then I met lots of different musicians, and sharing their culture and music skills, how I combine with them, how I actually fit my skill between the other different cultures. And then that's how I actually discover my new skills based on actually improvisation. And yeah, I think 90% of world musician in Australia, they know about me. And it's very beginning. It's really hard to understand the culture plus how you fit into the culture. It's among for... Yeah, it's, to be honest, when I came to Australia first I had no idea, I couldn't speak English and I only can play music, but I needed money, of course.
And then I start actually busking the place called Newtown, King Street. And that actually improved me a lot, almost 100%. On the street, people never heard throat singing and my instrument. And then they start asking many, many questions and then I had no idea what should I answer, should I say yes or no? That kind of starting point happened, and then after that, I just have to learn English, otherwise I miss opportunity, maybe. And then I start actually learning English and speak and make conversation with the locals. And my English actually improved within a year. And then lots of Australian famous ABC radio and the orchestra conductors and lots of music product producers, they met me and then they want me to collaborate with them. And then that's actually my music career start in Australia. Now here I am. Yeah.
Well, I do have a lot of questions, but do you want to share some music first or would you like to talk some more?
Yeah. That's what I'm talking about. This is morin khuur, this is the horsehead actually crafted top of the instruments. And look, the sound box looks like that. It's like a very classical handcrafted fiddle. You can play actually anything on this instrument. And this instrument used to be the sound box, the front and back used to be on the cow skin. It's more like an undertone, very bass sounds came out. Now you can tune actually any tone. No, I mean any notes. And then you can play. The sound is like that.(music)
I just played the song called urtiin [inaudible] which is Mongolian traditional long song. Because why is that called long song? And especially the all parts of earth Mongolian like north, west, east, south, they have their own genre. This long song basically originally came from the Eastern Mongolia, because Eastern Mongolia is Gobi desert. Beautiful. The flat landscape. And then that's why it's the original people in that area, they sing, for example, in 10 seconds or 20 seconds. They only sing two, three words. For example, if I say "Hello, how are you ?" It takes like (singing"how are you")
That's why it's called long song, because in Gobi desert, you can't see other side of the edge. If you drive in the middle of Gobi, maybe if you drive 30 minutes, you feel like you stay in one spot. Yeah. That's why all region is different genre they sing. For example, west part Mongolia, it's lots of mountain forest and then they have more a rhythmic... For example...
Yeah. For example, like that. It's all different type of... And then Mongolia is very rich with traditional dance. It's all played by horse fiddle, as well. For example, all dancers, especially the female dancers, they always show when they dance, show their lifestyle. For example, (singing) .I look at the mirror and then the hair, brushing (singing) and then we play behind when the dancers is dancing. It sounds like that. And sometimes it's fastest. Of course, this is called horse fiddle, and then... Lots of different type of horse galloping songs. One of them (music) Yeah.
Now, the strings are unusual, on that instrument. Can you talk about how they're made?
The strings, looks like two strings, but it's made up from the horsetail.See? There's lots of piece of horsetail. Can you see that?
Yeah. Yeah.
And bow is horsetail and it's only one instrument around the world, play horsetail with horsetail.
Yeah.
That's why when the people's first reaction always feel it very, very close to their hearts. And goosebump. Because it's live. We're using... They're not... For example, a violin, cello, classical instrument. They actually play on metal string and with the bow. But this instrument, horsetail with horsetail, it's a kind of very soulful sound, always coming through this instrument. That's why it's a very special instrument.
It's very beautiful. I love it. But just to say, so violins used to be intestines, so gut strings, that's actually from sheep intestines. And now there's some metal, but different things. Just to say, they used to be made of metal. Now the bow, traditionally it's like the kamancheh, it's like a variable tension. But do you use more of a cello bow or are you using a traditional bow?
It's basically designed for this instrument. It's actually in a bit... Because the violin little bit smaller and then cello and thicker and smaller because they usually do positions like that, and then press from the top. But this instrument, I'm actually holding this position. That's why the bottom two fingers actually gives tension, adjusted the volume, tone volume. And this one holds the bow doesn't fall off anyway. And then the thumb actually lock it. It's basically same as a German bow position. It's why it's longer than any bows.
I've had a few previous guests who play different types of stringed instruments, bowed instruments. I'm always very interested. So people who haven't heard those episodes, I have an episode with a kamancheh player and a gadulka player and arhu, because they're all cousins. And it's so interesting to hear the different music people make on these instruments.
All two strings instruments originated from Mongolia and then it spread out, and the Mediterranean and plus in China and a big land, it's all spread out. But in history, this instrument is actually the elder instrument. It's like a father of the two strings family, and erhu used to be , you know, used to be used in nomads' land, it's easy to take... Hold the handle, just put it in the back and sit on the saddle and then go whatever they want. The nomads. And then if they get bored, just grab from the back and start playing. That's why it's all two strings instrument all originated from Mongolia. Yeah. Yeah. But it's in long term, generation-to-generation, of course, all instruments, sounds, and position, and they're finished and they're all quality and design all changed, of course.
And there's legends about the origin of the instrument, too, that I heard.
Yeah. This instrument, the legend, his name is actually Khuhuu Namjil. Khuhuu means cuckoo. Similar. It's Mongolian. Cuckoo. Khuhuu, he's a legend man who actually went to army and then he met beautiful maiden and then they actually fall in love with each other. And before he went to army, he used to actually look after very rich families' animals. He's like a herder. And living with his poor mom. And then when he went to army, he met the beautiful maiden and then he finished it and he sent back to his original place. And then he missed his girl. And then his girl come back to him and then she gave to him a horse, and horse can fly. And then every day he can fly to her region and then catch up her and then come back. He's home. And it happened like that. But there is a jealous, jealous girl, the rich man's daughter.
She also fell in love with him. And then she knew that. And then she actually caught the man, actually seeing the girl who has fall in love with each other. And then, "I have to do something." And then the jealous lady actually, one day, cut off his horse's wings and horse died. And then he missed his horse and before he buried the horse, the wind suddenly blow across the horse's tail, the wind comes through and then the tail starts a little bit making the music. And he thought, how about instead of burying my horse, I always have to memorize, remember my horse, I have to make instrument to the memory of my beautiful horse. And then he start making instrument and take his horse tail, put it in the instrument, and then make some bows from the neck, and sound box. And then he made it, complete the instrument and then start playing. From then this instrument born. Yeah.
The song you're going to hear is from one of Bukhu's albums, and it's called Khuhuu Namjil. And that is the name of the man in the legend that Bukhu was just telling us about, the man who had invented the morin khuur, the horse head fiddle. (music)
And you said it used to be covered in skin. So it makes sense for nomadic people who were in the desert, that didn't have access to trees, that it would've been animal skin.
Yes, because it depends on where you live. Mongolia is not surrounded with the ocean or something like that. That's why it's a 100% dry place, which is, animal skin more comfortable. So sounds is more like a soft and very beautiful sound. And then second of course, we are related for our animals. Always, if your best horses die, you always try to keep something from it. That's why you take off the skin and skin parts and then always memorize and put it in the frame drum or put it in covered with what they play, just cover with skin. Skin with the instrument, covered with the skin. When they play song they always memorize their best friends as well. It's friendship between animal and human, as well.
I saw some of that Mongolian movie about the weeping camel. So is it true that those songs are used to soothe the animals?
Yeah, it does. Because I used to do that as well. If you want, I can send you the videos as well. I make them cry as well. And because the camels can be very soft and very smart. It's very rare. Sometimes they reject it. Cow. But most of the time, if they can't accept the babies, the babies are always... Unfortunately can't live for long. And that's why the, who's the nearest, well-trained and experienced, the fiddle player who invited by host, and then they play front of the camel and then play and sing, and camel start crying. And then as soon as they become very calm and then host will slowly bring the baby and then they put it into teat and then suck the milk.
And then as soon as the mom is very still, very calm, that's the happy ending. It's always, mothers accept the babies and then baby will survive as well. That's their very old traditional. The music actually have the strong power to make... Even, they make animals cry and trying to help them to accept their babies as well. It's all nomadic life skill and trained and how they're close to the animals, and things like that. Because animals, for nomads, it's like a car or...
Next, you're going to hear Bukhu singing in a video he sent me. He's singing to a camel in Mongolia in order to help her accept her calf that she had rejected. So in the video it's really just focused on her face, and that's the tradition that he was just explaining.(music)
Bukhu, did you grow up in a nomadic lifestyle or in the city?
Both ways because my mom, she was raised and born in west part of Mongolia but she's a lived in... Reindeer people. She's a reindeer. And my father is also from countryside. And then when they turn to late 30s, they moved to capital city. It's called Ulaanbaatar. And during the school term, I, of course, stay in the capital city. And then in summer, from June to September, it's three months' summer holiday, I always stay at my mother's place three months. And then I used to... It's like, yeah, it's city and countryside. I always do that. Yeah.
So who taught you to play and sing, at the beginning?
The beginning, my uncle, my father's older brother, he's actually influenced me a lot when I was five years old and he'd always come to my place and then play music and sing and always having happy conversation with my parents. And then my dad used to sing with him as well. My mom singing. It's weekend, just relaxing there all the time. Just relatives come and then sing and play and eat together. My uncle influenced me a lot at the time. He is actually a little man, but his finger is a big finger. And then just flying over the strings playing beautiful sound like that, I was like, "How he make this sound so beautifully? Look at the fingers, it's just flying." And then that's actually how I fall in love with this sound.
And then it was just normal. That time I turned nine, I went to normal school. And then one day, my music teacher came, "There is a special music class opening. Who wants to join this class?" And then I just raised my hand. And then that night back from school, I just told my mom and dad, "Hey, mom and dad, I just want to study for music." And then they said, "No, how are you going to live with music? How are you going to earn money? The musicians, it's very, very difficult to earn money, and we prefer you become an engineer," because my whole family, they are construction engineers. I'm the only one musician. And then I had an agreement with my father and then he said, "You're really interested? You're really into it?" And then I said yes. "Okay. I'll send you to the conservatorium at Mongolia," but there is an audition, happened. And then my uncle took me to the Conservatorium and I actually passed three auditions and then I accept for conservatorium.
And then my father told me, "Okay, I really want the best, best musician from my family. If you can't make it within three years, if you can't bring any prize in three years, my mind will be changed. That was very, very difficult agreement. And then I said, "Yes, okay, I'll do it." I worked hard, worked hard. I got a prize. Many, many prizes. And then he just... "Yeah, okay, this is your life. But son, listen, if you become a musician, you'll be out of the normal life and then you have no time to, you know, feel - you probably miss your teenage, your childhood memories will be, you'll probably sacrifice it. You'll be fully trained, you'll be 10 hours practice. And then are you happy with that," my dad said, I said, "Yes, I'm happy."
And then my whole life, just playing music and practice, play music, practice, plus the general subjects of school, it's adding as well. I go to school in the morning, seven o'clock, school finish two o'clock, but the music, the main class starts from 2:00 'til 5:00 and then 5:00 to nine o'clock, I have always practice.
And that's why my whole life happened. I sacrificed all what my dad said, but it's okay. It didn't really turn to the wrong way. Yeah, I'm so happy with that because I love music and I love playing. Yeah, that's why. Yeah. In my conservatorium, my class, there was 36 children first came in and then when I graduated in 2007, only five of us graduated, because most of the children, some of them knew, "It's not my destiny," and they just quit as early as possible. Yeah. And then 2007, I promoted to the best Mongolian ensemble, hospital ensemble. It's the best 14 horse fiddle players in this ensemble. I selected and then worked there for two years and then came to Australia, 2009. And then I'm working as a musician in Australia now. Yeah.
Is there any festivals, like a world music festival, happen in Canada, or no?
There are lots of festivals and I'm not the person to ask, but your friend, Linsey, who introduced us, I think he would have more of an idea.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
He used to tour a lot. And you're in a group with him now?
Yes. Yes, we have a three piece. Linsey and Lizzie. It's very unique combination as well. Lizzie has very beautiful , beautiful out of - high tones and things. It's like an angel voice, and then floating all around, sounds. And Linsey, of course, he's a king of the wind instrument. He just nailed it and then including me, it's unique as well. And yeah, we actually played in 2019 WOMADelaide that's the biggest festival in Australia. And then we had lots of very nice reviews and comments. And then, yeah, I hope we're doing more project as well.
Yeah. Now, yeah, this time it's actually... My children's small, I can't really go around far from home, because my wife needs help. Yeah. That's why I'm... Sometimes I look after my children, help my wife, and if it's like inter-s I go there. And then if it's out of state, I always only love daytime. Just book the flight for me in the morning as early as possible, get there, sound check, and then after concert, can you please take me to the airport, straight away? This is a little bit tiring, but the life is... What can you do? It is possible. Yeah.
And they grow up so fast.
I know, I know. All right.
Well, I don't want to keep you. I know you have to get back to your kids, so thanks so much for this today. Good.
All right. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful evening. Sleep well.
Have a good day.
You too. Okay, bye.
I hope you enjoy this episode. I'm taking a much needed break in August, but in a few weeks, the series returns with lots more fascinating musicians worldwide. I've released almost 80 full episodes at this point, and well over 100 with shorter bonuses. So please check out my complete catalog of episodes. You can sign up for my podcast newsletter at leahroseman.com and please share your favorite episodes with your friends and family. I really appreciate your support.
