E2 S2 Lynn Kuo Transcript
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Leah Roseman:
Hi, Lynn Kuo, thanks for joining me.
Lynn Kuo:
Hi, Leah. Thanks for having me.
Leah Roseman:
So, I want to talk about a lot of things in your career. You are very active as a performer, as a violinist, but since the pandemic hit you really pivoted in a really successful way online. And I know you have a couple different courses that you offer. So, if you want to speak to those, that would be really interesting.
Lynn Kuo:
Sure. Well, first of all, it started off because I was teaching, I temporarily left my National Ballet of Canada orchestra gig to teach for just four months, just one semester at Memorial University in Newfoundland. And it was only a sabbatical replacement position. So, I was supposed turned back to Toronto and that would've ended April, 2020, but of course, March, 2020 started the pandemic. So, I didn't get to finish my term and I got rather stuck in Newfoundland. So, that's when I turned online and I saw a post by a friend, Tracy Friedlander, on Instagram, and she was advertising an interview that she was being invited to do in a summit, an online summit of musician entrepreneurs. So, I watched the interview and then after the summit ended, there was an invitation for anyone interested to take a three day entrepreneurial workshop. So, that's how I turned my brain from being a performer in the pit.
Lynn Kuo:
And then I pivoted to being a professor. And then all of a sudden, my brain switched. Maybe it's time to start figuring out a way to teach online. And that's when my entrepreneurial side started to turn on. And then after that three day or weekend workshop, I took a 10 week course, and that was the start of my first bootcamp online. So, I launched that summer violin bootcamp in June, 2020. And, yes, it was a big success. I had 17 students from Canada and the US. Yeah, and I was thrilled. It was my first time really becoming an entrepreneur. So, I've since launched two subsequent bootcamps after that one in the winter, January, 2021.
Lynn Kuo:
And then again in June, 2021 as well. So, yeah, and then post for the next one. So, this is exciting for me because I can reach a lot of musicians around the world, not just in my city, not just in my country. I've been working with musicians as far as the Philippines, New Zealand, Scotland, of course, USA and Canada. And it's really fun to connect with everybody. And they love connecting with each other actually, because they learn so much from each other and they span everywhere in age from teenage all the way to post retirement. And they're either students, graduates, professional violinists, and amateurs, extremely talented amateurs actually. So, it's really fun working with all of them.
Leah Roseman:
I know quite a few other people that do these bootcamp style things online, but often the content isn't in real time, it's like they pre-prepare videos that people have access to. Is that your format as well?
Lynn Kuo:
I have now a combination of both. So, I have a suite of courses, which I call the violin ninja courses. I was going to launch them, but they are in a sort of limbo mode right now. So, they're not really launched, but they are part of the package of my bootcamp experience. So, my bootcamp experience will be eight weeks. I had one that was 12 weeks long and anyone who signs up for the bootcamp can get access to that recorded material. And it spans from violin technique, mastering musicality, which is not really addressed actually, how to express more sensitively and actually to expand your musicality. I don't find that many instructors actually discuss that. And then there's also discussion on practice techniques, which is also I feel an under addressed topic on exactly how to practice more efficiently. And then another component of the violin education is to look at performance anxiety. So, I address all four of these and these four cornerstones are what make up my bootcamp and teaching experience.
Leah Roseman:
Thanks. So, there'll be a link in the description of this episode for your website and then all your current offerings will be there for people to check out. So, when you got your job as assistant concertmaster of the National Ballet Orchestra of Canada in Toronto, you were in school and you were doing your Masters.
Lynn Kuo:
I was.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, but it's interesting to me because you went on to do your Doctorate of Musical Arts, which I've noticed my young colleagues joining our orchestra here, a lot of them have Doctorates because they stay in school, but continue to get your Doctorate while you already have a job I found an interesting choice. It's a lot of extra work.
Lynn Kuo:
You're right about that actually, my health really suffered actually while I was doing work and a doctorate at the same time. In fact, I actually kept a secret the first two years until it finally started to leak out to people in my work circles that I was pursuing a degree, an academic degree. I didn't want people to know that I had returned to being a student. I had graduated, won my job, had been out of academia for, I can't remember now, seven years or something.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I was fully professional, you're right, in my National Ballet job. And then I got invited by a professor at the University of Toronto, Dennis Patrick. He basically recruited me. He said, "Lynn, I think you'd be a very suitable candidate for this program. And you don't live far from the campus. You're very active in terms of improving, playing, learning. You'd be a very suitable person for this new inaugural program." And I was the first person as a string player to graduate from U of T with a DMA.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I was the first string player and it nearly killed me to be working and writing a dissertation. I would play literally a show of Swan Lake, end at about almost 11:00 PM, come home and open up the laptop and start working on a chapter. It was really, really tough. Leah, I remember this finger, this bow hold finger, it swelled up like sausage and it was so puffy that this knuckle, I could barely bend this knuckle around my bow. And that was from stress.
Lynn Kuo:
I have a friend, a dear childhood friend, and she also got a PhD at U of T. I showed her a picture of my finger. She said, "Yep. That happened to me too." So, I'll call it the DMA finger, the doctor finger. It was really stressful. Yeah. But I managed and four and a half years later, I got it, barely alive. But yeah, and I remember the day after my convocation, I had posted some photos online on social media. And I remember I walked into a National Ballet rehearsal and my colleagues who are my connections on social media and knew that I had just convocated, and I remember walking in and they were all cheering for me at the rehearsal. Because it was quite the journey. I was always so stressed out, so tired.
Leah Roseman:
So, what was your dissertation about?
Lynn Kuo:
I wrote it on holistic health and injury prevention in orchestral musicians, it was more of a qualitative study, so it was more interview style. It wasn't meant to be quantitative data or anything like that. I interviewed musicians and asked them about their real lived experiences with injury, preventing injury, and looking at all the different things that they do or don't do, what that contributed to the experience of their injury, the occurrence of their injury, and what helped them overcome the injury. So, I wanted to actually get the words, the actual words of their personal lived experiences. I thought that was very useful. And I was surprised after I started to get some random checks in the mail for something like $3 and 29 cents, it was actually downloaded by people off the internet.
Leah Roseman:
I don't understand about the checks.
Lynn Kuo:
So, when you publish a dissertation, people can actually purchase the dissertation. Yeah. So, checks came from U of T saying someone has purchased your dissertation. So, I was quite amused; I don't think I cashed it. I think I just put it on my bulletin board and laughed at it.
Leah Roseman:
You'd mentioned your inflammation of your finger that you relate to stress, which I can really relate to. And in my experience, some serious issues I had directly related to stress. And when I dealt with my body connection, I was able to solve these quite serious problems. But I feel like a lot of musicians aren't aware of that as much as they should be.
Lynn Kuo:
Really, you feel like there's just a lack of awareness?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I think a lot of people blame the job. They think we're playing too many hours, you know what I mean? I think that's a lot of the mentality and of course it can be difficult when people have different situations and I don't mean to pass any judgment at all, but I do think that in my own lived experience, just to say that it's our mind can do tricky things and create inflammation actually. And yeah, I won't go into my personal story. It's not the place for it, but I just was curious about if you had dealt... You mentioned performance anxiety before an injury prevention, if you can you talk about that mind body connection at all?
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah, I started reading lots of those kinds of books. And I personally experienced it, but ironically, through writing my thesis, I lived through that experience. Well, first of all, I was inspired to write the dissertation because I myself was experiencing injury myself and repetitive strain mostly, and it wasn't pain. It wasn't tingling or numbness. It was loss of stamina and loss of strength. And I discovered that there were a bunch of things that were in play, not just physical, kinesthetic, and setup and posture, which is often what people go to. What's your shoulder rest, what's your chin rest, what's your posture? Those things are extremely important.
Lynn Kuo:
But then I started to realize in the process of writing my thesis that stress, mental perception of life's events, mental perception, as you just said, of the job, what stressors are in the job? What stressors do orchestral musicians experience on a day to day basis in the occupation? And these things can contribute to your psychological stress, which then creates a physical, a psychosomatic experience of tightening muscle tension. And muscle tension will then create fatigue. And I talked about co-contraction, especially in the flexors and extensors. So, when this co-contraction happens, and this is exactly what happened to me, when you're in a fight or flight state, stressed out, then your muscles are going to remain in this tense state. So, I had to learn that myself, so in the process of writing my thesis, I actually healed myself in a way. I don't think I've really been injured since writing and completing my thesis.
Lynn Kuo:
So, it was actually very healing for me, if not helpful for anyone else. So, yeah, it really helped me when I wrote this piece, this work, and I discovered how important it is to not just address one aspect of preventing injury. Like you said, it's really important to have everything involved in terms of treating life and looking at it in a lens that allows you to remain healthy. So, for me, that means positive outlook, and that encompasses daily practices and rituals. Like what do you say to yourself, self-talk, which I've mentioned in my performance anxiety course, and also incorporates daily rituals, just like taking moments to do a mini meditation.
Lynn Kuo:
And it doesn't have to be a religious thing, it could be very non-secular, meditation can simply be a moment to focus and you can treat it as if you are about to perform on stage and you don't have to call it meditation, but you can call it a breathing exercise, a focusing exercise, and in the process of doing it a breathing and focusing exercise, wow, you're actually allowing the parasympathetic nervous system to work for you, for your benefit, to calm your whole body, and, wow, when you calm the whole body then maybe you're getting that much further into decreasing stress hormones being release into your body, less cortisol.
Lynn Kuo:
And this is all beneficial for the entire... Your digestion, your muscle tension, muscle relaxation, and also just even your mental mind state before you step out on stage. So, it's a work in progress for everybody, I know. And some people I think are more affected than others in terms of injury prevention and also in terms of performance anxiety. But I think all of us can benefit from these little practices that can be open to improving if you incorporate some of these practices. So, I continue to do these things and I continue to teach them and pass them along to my students.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. It's interesting about performance anxiety, because with the pandemic, most symphony orchestras and chamber music groups, we've been doing live streams, and it's a different kind of suddenly attention. You don't know if the camera's going to be on you. And I've talked to a few colleagues in different places that have felt a new performance anxiety they didn't feel before because it's not just you go and you play a concert and you're in the moment. It's like, this might be out there forever. And what if I'm suddenly doing the wrong bowing or something silly like that, that you wouldn't normally pay attention to.
Lynn Kuo:
Right. Yeah, that's a real stressor. It was funny when I was looking at literature written on musicians and stressors in our occupation, and I guess this will be added as a new one, the potential permanence, permanent record of our performance. And that will have to be added now with the advent of live streaming and video recording. Before I was looking at this body of research saying, I think it was a Finnish dissertation actually written in 2008 or something, and the number one stressor for orchestral musicians I believe was judgment by your peers. Solos, when you play a solo, right? That's when you're afraid of judgment, that one I think was the number one stressor for orchestral musicians.
Leah Roseman:
I remember, I'm older than you, but when I was starting to do auditions, the position that you won was often open. And I was going to do an audition, but of course it was this weird list, if you're not used to the ballet repertoire, I was like, I don't know this stuff. So, congratulations on getting that position.
Lynn Kuo:
Thank you.
Leah Roseman:
I interviewed your colleague, Aaron in season one.
Lynn Kuo:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
So, you're kind of his understudy in terms of solos.
Lynn Kuo:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
If he's suddenly ill.
Lynn Kuo:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
So, what's that feeling like of being assistant and knowing that you have to be on the ball for very difficult solos?
Lynn Kuo:
Well, that is really cute that she mentioned that my position has been open for a long time. And it was, it was jokingly called the ejector seat before I got it. See, I'm glad you concur, it was, it really was known as the ejector seat. And when I got the job, I was very green. And I remember when I did win the job, someone said, she also auditioned, she said to me, "Now you've got to learn all the solos." And I thought, what did I just walk into? So, yes, I remember my first time having to deal with this. Well, actually my first day on the job, I was put into the concertmaster chair for Nutcracker. And I was quite literally the only person in the orchestra who had never played Nutcracker, on that first day on my job. It was really funny. And I missed a repeat, everyone knew this repeat. It was a repeat of five times.
Lynn Kuo:
And it's when the kids are opening up their gifts in act one. And I think uncle Nikolai is doing some tricks, I think, and it goes five times, five times, or six times, where you have to really keep your eye and count. And of course I missed it, and it was really funny. Then the next time, the concertmaster Fujiko Imajishi, and she became ill. And this is in the time before cell phones. I was still a student. I remember this because I was in the basement of the University of Toronto practicing. I did not own a cell phone, at those times we had answering machines. So, I remember thinking, okay, I think I will go early, bring my dinner to the theater and just warm up. And I got to the theater, at the time, it was called Hummingbird Center, which is now O'Keefe Center, in Toronto. And I think it was the personnel manager, Jean Birch, who's now no longer with us.
Lynn Kuo:
She said, "Fujiko's not here, she's sick, you have to step up for Swan Lake." Swan Lake has got two big solos, the white swan and the black swan, and the Russian gets three solos. So, I thought, okay, there goes my dinner. So, yeah, that was my first time. And from then on, I got a cell phone. Yeah. It's been scary. So, yeah, I remember thinking from then on that my job really should be, it felt to me anyway, like I was a first emergency responder.
Lynn Kuo:
Like right now, I hear sirens outside my window. I don't know if you can hear that. I hear sirens. Yeah. So, it felt like that, it felt like I was an emergency responder. If the siren turns on you're on, and you don't have any rehearsal. And I have another story to share, I forget exactly which year it was, but there was unfortunate and very alarming gun shooting in Eaton Center, Eaton Center is just down the street from the Four Seasons Center of Performing Arts.
Lynn Kuo:
And we were in a double show, Saturday matinee and a Saturday evening, I believe, [inaudible]. And Benjamin Bowman was our concertmaster. And he retells this story on social media as well. And Ben is now in the Met Opera. And so we were performing a world premier of a ballet called Hamlet, from a contemporary composer in New York. And the first act was just strings, piano, and percussion. In fact, there were chains, I think, coming out of the piano. And of course I was not involved. It was the concertmaster, principle second, principle viola, the cello, bass, et cetera. So, I knew that I had to be an understudy, so I took the music and looked at it, and I even said, you know what? I better, just in case, show up to the rehearsals.
Lynn Kuo:
And I remember showing up to the rehearsals and one of them looked at me and she kind of laughed at me. "What are you doing here?" I said, "Well, whatever, just watch rehearsals." And she just kind of laughed, like you don't need to be here, but I watched at least two rehearsals and it was a very contemporary score. And then I went to have dinner after the matinee, and I was going to go in, I don't know, I can't remember, and do something.
Lynn Kuo:
I had just finished my dinner, literally washed my fork and finished washing my hands. Ben came in from outside and his eyes were wide and he said, "Lynn, I'm really sorry. I cannot play tonight's show. I just saw a shooting in the food court at Eaton Center," he and his wife were there and they had to flatten on the floor and hide under the chairs and tables. And so he was in shock, quite literally. And then I went into shock. I was just shocked to hear that there was a shooting just down the street, but I also was in shock because I had to step up and play this part that I had never played before ever. So, I went into the pit and looked at it and I managed it.
Lynn Kuo:
I remember there were quintuplets and crazy things. And David Briskin is our conductor. And I do remember coming in in one entry just slightly early. And I was so thankful that he just looked at me with a very reassuring face and said, "Now is your entry. Thank you." And I remember that first act ending, and my left quad had been shaking the entire show. But, yeah, I led the second act and the whole show ended and they all clapped for me. It was so frightening, it was so frightening. Yeah. And then I was really quite tickled when David, the next day, we had a rehearsal for the next program.
Lynn Kuo:
And he said that he had mentioned what I had done to management and the orchestra. And I was very touched that he had mentioned me, that what I had done was very heroic, I guess, for that occasion, it was scary. It was scary. So, I do have some of those very, shall I say, traumatic stories from stepping up, yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So, the Ballet job's about half a year.
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah. It's part time. We have a guarantee of 120 services in the year, we start in November for about three weeks, then we go for a run in December for Nutcracker. And then we go again, we're dark for January, February, come back in March, then we're back. We're dark for April and May and we reopen in June.
Leah Roseman:
So, for other performances, because I know you do chamber music and solo things, a lot of new music, you're able to schedule it because you know those times you won't be having to work ballet.
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah. So, then whatever comes, you squeeze in, freelance work, opera, symphony, teaching. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And so you're from Newfoundland, and you went to a pretty well known arts high school, Holy Heart of Mary. Is that the one?
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah. I don't know how well known it is, but in our city of St John's, it's known as the arts or music school. I don't know. Have you heard of Holy Heart in Ottawa?
Leah Roseman:
We played there. The National Arts Center played there.
Lynn Kuo:
In Holy Heart?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. On tour. And actually the soloist is now a member of our orchestra.
Lynn Kuo:
Sean.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Lynn Kuo:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
He was a student at the time. So, we were told it was this amazing arts high school. I remember going in, it's this huge thing. And I know there's a lot of music in the schools in Newfoundland, a lot of singing and...
Lynn Kuo:
Yes, the choral tradition is strong in Newfoundland. It is extremely strong. And yes, Holy Heart, well, I'm glad to hear that you know of it as a venerable arts institution, for me, it was always the music institution, high school institution in the city, but outside of our city of St. John's, I don't necessarily know how people view it. I know that there was, when I was a student, there was a sort of unofficial rivalry, choral rivalry, in the Kiwanis Festival, which then descends to the provincial competition, then ascends to the national level, the choirs, multiple choirs at Holy Heart of Mary, were often pitted against Earl Haig Secondary School in Toronto.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I would often see the winners of these national trophies, choral trophies, and it would be often between Holy Heart, Earl Haig, Earl Haig and Holy Heart. So, yeah, it was interesting to see that and Holy Heart did become very famous for award winning choral performances and competitions. They toured around the world and I was actually never really an official member of their choirs.
Lynn Kuo:
I don't maybe have a great singing voice, but they did use me as a perfect pitch pipe. I have perfect pitch. So, they used me as a pitch pipe and I also accompanied them on piano. So, I do remember the days of being 15 years old and we had help pushing the Steinway, Holy Mary had a big Steinway on their concert stage, it was that we had to take of it, but when it needed to be wheeled out into the center of the stage, we would push it out, and we were little high school kids at the time.
Lynn Kuo:
And I think the piano must still be there, after all these decades, and it was nice to know that we had a nice concert instrument in our school and a large auditorium, which you've played in. And it was also nice to know that I was given permission to skip classes. I could skip my science class, my biology class, or my math class and go practice in the practice room. So, that was a luxury that I had almost forgotten that I had. But I do remember it now.
Leah Roseman:
That's huge actually. Did you have an orchestra to play in as a violinist in the school?
Lynn Kuo:
Yes. Susan Quinn was our orchestra conductor as well as the choral conductor. So, she's an extremely gifted educator, we all loved Susan and she's still in St. John's educating. She's one of my favorite violin teachers, just music teachers in general. I never studied violin with her, but she is definitely someone I looked up to. She was just such a beacon of awesomeness in our school. I will direct her to this interview, I hope she hears me. But she led so many of us to our careers, including Sean.
Lynn Kuo:
Sean will speak highly of her I'm sure as well. And so many of us had such a great experience going through Holy Heart, just as an arts school, there was not just choral tradition and string tradition, but there were people who graduated and got a lot of drama training as well in high school. In fact, we have one of the people from our high school, Johnny Harris, I think he's on CBC, national television, and of international fame because he's now broadcast all over the world on Murdoch Mysteries. Yeah, Still Standing is one of his TV shows, so we have quite a bit of talent that comes out of that little school. Well, actually it's a big school, the population at the time, it was... How many people were in the school? 1,000, 2,000 people in that school? I can't remember now.
Leah Roseman:
So, after high school, you went to Toronto to study with legendary teacher, Lorand Fenyves.
Lynn Kuo:
Yes, actually, but first I did one year at Memorial. My first year was with Dr. Nancy Dahn, who is one half of Duo Concertante. And I still think of her as one of my best teachers as well. Well, I've got a lot of great teachers, Lorand Fenyves, definitely, he's definitely my biggest influence. And I studied with Mr. Fenyves for three years of my Bachelor, two years of my Masters. And also in addition to summers as a teenager in Orford Arts Center and Dance Center of the Musical Arts.
Lynn Kuo:
So, yes, when he passed suddenly, the tribute to him was astoundingly touching, people flew in from all over the world to be part of that memorial service, the memorial concert at the faculty of music. And he treated us all like his children or grandchildren actually. And I do remember when he had his 80th birthday concert at the Royal Conservatory of Music, he was awarded a very special medal from Hungary for his achievement in the arts.
Lynn Kuo:
So, his contribution to the arts in Hungary, or is it Israel? No, I believe it was Hungary. And I do remember him coming out at intermission at the Royal Conservatory. And I was, I didn't even know, maybe I was 19 at the time, and he comes out, I think he was wearing the medal. And I said, there he is, there's the birthday boy, he's 80 years old. He just chuckles, and his eyes just squint at me, he's very amused by my cheeky comment, this 19 year old girl is telling me I'm the birthday boy and he's 80 years old.
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah, I have fond memories, he played a Beethoven violin concerto. And, yeah, I do remember the story he told of shoes, shoes are very important. And he said that once he played, it was a Beethoven concerto, and he put on a pair of shoes that he had not broken in yet. And he said by the end of the second movement or third movement, his feet were just swelling in these poor shoes. And he was in so much discomfort. So, I remember before one of my student recitals he said, "Shoes, dress rehearsal, make sure you wear shoes, your shoes." So, I've remembered that ever since.
Leah Roseman:
And what were lessons like with him? What kind of things did he stress?
Lynn Kuo:
A lot of stories came out in the lessons. I remember actually looking, glancing, at a music score on his desk and I forget what it was exactly, but it was a bit yellowed, a bit frayed, you could tell it was quite old, quite aged, but in handwriting you could see Joseph Szigeti in the corner, the right hand corner. My eyes went really wide, Joseph Szigeti. And he said to me, "This, I have very many letters from Joe."
Lynn Kuo:
Oh my God, I'm one connection away from violin history. It was great. So, he told a lot of stories, in fact he told me this wonderful story about I think it was Michael Rabin. Yes, it was Michael Rabin, and he said, okay, so this was the 1935, the Wieniawski Violin Competition, the very first one, the inaugural one. And I believe it was Ginette Neveu who won that competition. And Mr. Fenyves was competing in it.
Lynn Kuo:
Now, he had told me a story that [inaudible] father was there, and his father came up to Michael Rabin, who Michael was only 13 years old at the time, very young, and he said something like, "My daughter is going to win," very threatening. Very menacing. Very competitive. And anyway, I think the competition ended and Mr. Fenyves said he went over to check the results, and he's looking and said, "I was very happy," with whatever place it was. And sure enough, Michael Rabin did not place or he did not do as well as he thought, and he was devastated. Absolutely devastated.
Lynn Kuo:
So, Mr. Fenyves was just telling me the story in my lesson. So, Mr. Fenyves at the time must have been 16 or 17. He told me he was about that age. So, he took little Michael Rabin across the street where there apparently was a bakery. And there was this domed glass display of confections and bakery items. He said, "Please, would you like to choose a pastry?" And Michael Rabin is sobbing, "I'll take all of them." And he took all of them, it's such a cute story.
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah. It was such a wonderful story. But yeah, a lot of stories came out of the lessons and he really stressed the integrity of my practice sessions. I remember he had told me, "Once you close the door, nothing else exists except for your practice session." He knew that sometimes I would get a little scattered. He also knew that I was prone to practicing very quickly, too rapidly. And this is now part of my teaching philosophy on how to practice better. He would always stress that if you're practicing, make sure you're doing it with quality, so that you're ingraining any poor habits and you're not furthering your undesired results, so that you're actually cementing them into your neural pathways. He didn't use that terminology, but that's what it is. We're making sure that we're leveraging neuroplasticity, not ingraining poor habits, but we're practicing slowly enough so that quality is being ingrained into our neural pathways.
Lynn Kuo:
So, that was already a big lesson for me, for someone who tends to be, let's say, impatient, ambitious, wants to get there faster. And so he encouraged me to slow down. He also encouraged listening with the score, playing and studying from the entire score. And this is so important. Studying from one part only, now that we are orchestral players, you and I just see one slice of the entire piece, right? Just one part. And so it's easy to forget that the entire symphony is an entire work, not just one little solo line, it's an entire piece of art. So, Mr. Fenyves was very adamant and encouraged a lot of full score study.
Lynn Kuo:
And he told me to do a lot more singing, and he told me a story of a pianist, I forget who the pianist was, who literally sung the opening of Chopin, E major, A minor piano concerto over and over and over in her head until she got it right. And he encouraged me to do the exact same thing, so I was studying a Sibelius [inaudible] at the time, and just studying it in my head, singing it in my head, looking at the score, trying to feel where it fit in.
Lynn Kuo:
And I take that to heart now, actually, it's nice, because I have a piano, my childhood piano is right there, and I can take the piano score and then learn a bit of the piano and put the two parts together. And that really shapes how I learn the violin part, or understand the harmony. And then I'll understand, wow, that is augmented, the augmented sixth chord, and I see it's a German chord.
Lynn Kuo:
So then that shapes exactly how I will vibrate, color, even just kind of create a nuance in the phrase. Is the phrase going to be dependent on the harmony resolving or creating more tension? And these kinds of things can really come out of an in depth study of the score, and actually getting to an instrument where we can actually plunk things down chordally, in a chord sense, because as a melodic instrument, you can only play one line.
Lynn Kuo:
So, it's easy to forget what is underneath us harmonically. So, Mr. Fenyves was very good at encouraging that all encompassing approach to learning music. So, that's what it was like with him. I felt like I was working with a father figure. He was very encouraging and very loving, but he never really gave a lot of praise, which I think is a bit of old school teaching. If I got a, "Very good," out of him, I was over the moon. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And so you played piano all the way through high school. You were quite advanced with piano. How did you balance that with having enough time to practice violin?
Lynn Kuo:
That's a good question. I started waning after the age of 15 because that was the summer that I went to National Youth Orchestra. The one summer that I went to National Youth Orchestra, and I didn't have a piano, I was on the University of Guelph campus, and I was there to play orchestra. And I think I had one violin book, it was Schubert Impromtus. And I think I had encountered in the six weeks, six weeks it was of National Youth Orchestra, I found a piano. I was like, there's my chance to come back to piano. But that was just that one time in one summer. So, I hadn't touched a piano for the entire summer. Actually I wasn't even 15 yet. I was 14, almost 15. And after that pivotal summer, I decided I'm going to make violin my instrument, after I would say at least a year or two of my music teachers encouraging me, to major, just to concentrate on one instrument.
Lynn Kuo:
So, it was a real dilemma for me, which one should I make my primary instrument? So, finally it came to that summer, and violin was going to be it, but my parents said, "Please, you cannot quit. Not just yet, go until at least your end of high school years." So, I would show up to my piano lessons with my teacher, Kristina Szutor, hi, Kristina, if she's listening. Kristina Szutor, she's just retired now as a professor of piano at Memorial University.
Lynn Kuo:
And she was great. She's a fantastic musician. And I would show up to my piano lessons with her. She knew I wasn't really interested in studying piano anymore. I think I barely learned Debussy, L'isle Joyeuse, on piano, poorly, really poorly. And so she knew that I wasn't really concentrating on really practicing the piano because I was practicing more the violin. So, I think she said, "Well, what am I going to do with this girl for the next hour?" So, I do remember this, she would pull out a book of Beethoven symphonies for four hands, piano with four hands. So, that's what we'd do, kind of sight-read these things in our lessons, I thought, poor her, I'm wasting her time. She knows I don't want to be a pianist, but it comes in handy. Now it comes in handy. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I'm sure you got a lot of-
Lynn Kuo:
So, even... Pardon me?
Leah Roseman:
I just thought, being able to read through those symphonies, that would be actually really valuable.
Lynn Kuo:
I can't read full scores though. That's a skill that I never developed. There's a lot of skills that I haven't developed. I don't know, a lot of classical musicians can't improvise, can't read a full score, can't transpose that site. It's funny because we'll encounter non-musicians who think, "Can you play this, can you play that? Can you play that pop song?" And I feel a little sheepish to think I can't really do that. So, it just goes to show you that even though you and I are musicians, we can't master every single skill that's out there as a musician. Can I sing and play at the same time? No, but someone else could, a singer songwriter can definitely play an instrument and sing at the same time.
Lynn Kuo:
So, it's interesting how the perception from a non-musician will look at us and say, "Can you make up something right now?" And I thought, I'm a classically trained musician. I need to look at a piece of music. It's interesting. Yeah. It's really interesting.
Leah Roseman:
When you were talking about closing out the outside world to focus on your practicing, we didn't have cell phones back then. So, that aspect was taken away. And I think it's a bit of a conflict now because some people use their metronomes on their cell phone, their tuner, they might listen to recordings. So, do you encounter that with your students? It's a bit of a tough thing, right?
Lynn Kuo:
For me too. Yes. That phone is absolutely 100% of the distraction. It's a terrible distraction. So, turning on airplane mode is the least I can do. And even then I can always turn that off, and go back on. So, lately, actually in the last 48 hours, or more than 48 hours, generally speaking, I try to turn on airplane mode. I turn on TonalEnergy Tuner and in the app I turn on a timer. So, I typically have a practice journal, which I write out and I find the process of writing out what I would like to achieve helps me focus better. So, that will help me eliminate my mental distraction. So, as much as the phone can be my distraction, at least I can partially use it to help me stay in line mentally. So, I'll turn on a 10 minute timer.
Lynn Kuo:
And this is my way of doing interleaved practice, which I teach in my course on practicing techniques. So, I incorporate interweaving and then Pomodoro Technique. So, I allow myself a chunk of the time to practice in 10 minute chunks and I'll intersperse, I'll interweave different pieces or different sections of pieces. And then I'll build in a five minute break. When the timer ends, I will go back, put it back on airplane mode if I was not in airplane for the five minute break and then go back.
Lynn Kuo:
And that seems to have really helped. So, either that or I put the phone in the freezer, but that's my attempt to having the phone used as a tool to help me focus my practice. I do find the TonalEnergy app really helpful as well, because visually it reinforces what I'm hearing in terms of pitch, in terms of the color of the pitches that I'm getting out of my instrument. It's nice to have that visual reinforcement.
Leah Roseman:
In your coaching and developing your programs, are there certain core, like you mentioned, of course the core skills, but in terms of violin technique, are there things you think tend to be missing in terms of people refining their playing?
Lynn Kuo:
Yes. Let me see. Off the string strokes is a popular discomfort for me. I think intonation tends not to be addressed as often as it could be, especially knowing the difference of going between just intonation, Pythagorean intonation, and well tempered intonation. So, knowing that is really helpful. Well, actually, I go back to musicality. I think very few music educators will really discuss musicality. And they'll build it into a masterclass, but it's funny cause I've actually taught an entire class or entire workshop just on musicality.
Lynn Kuo:
How does one actually build in amplifying your expression so that you're really taking interpretation and making it come off the page? Is there a way to do that effectively? And is there a strategy behind it? Can there be a strategy? And I'd like to think that I have found certain ways, certain strategies, certain tricks, shall we say, I don't like to call them tricks, not tricks, but just strategies of looking at the score, looking at contour of line, looking at harmony, actually this is the perfect answer to your question.
Lynn Kuo:
I feel like especially as a melodic instrumentalist, there's a sore lack of understanding with harmony, what is underlying our melody. So, when there's that lack of appreciation for the underlying harmony, the melody I feel becomes a little less intelligent, and it could be so much more expressive when understanding what lies underneath it harmonically.
Lynn Kuo:
So, that, understanding the importance of theory, because often musicians will be required to take theory in school. Sure, it's pretty dry, it can be pretty dry if you're not into theory. But if you can turn your study of music theory and make it practical, applicable to what we play, especially in solo Bach, when we understand the underlying harmony, the bassline, the inner voices and how they change, then when you get into the Romantic era, when you get into the incredible harmonies that come from augmented six chords, Italian chords, French chords, German chords, these greatly color the way I shape phrase.
Lynn Kuo:
So, when I started pointing these things out to students, then I'm hoping that they'll get inspired to really add something technically, whether it's bow speed or pressure, left hand, and this help make the phrase a little juicier and the expression a little bit more satisfying because you want that phrase to be so satisfying. And it comes from the deeper understanding of the harmony.
Lynn Kuo:
So, staccato, intonation, musicality, those are three things that I've noticed and, let's see, and actually I've been told injury prevention actually, a lot of people are very interested in injury prevention. Even though I wrote my thesis on holistic health and injury prevention, I don't consider myself a person that is an expert on how to be injured. I would much prefer to have experts come in, and help set you up biomechanically, or help address the mental aspect of getting into a healthy mind frame. I do love talking about the mindsets and mental outlooks that can affect performance anxiety, but I think performance anxiety can be linked to injury prevention. So, I think that everything is related.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I agree. And I think body awareness, I don't know, I've done, tons of Alexander, Feldenkrais, Tai Chi, just a whole host of things over the years. So, I think people need to find different ways to have that awareness of what their bodies are doing in space. And in terms of muscular tension have that sensitivity.
Lynn Kuo:
Yeah. I've done all those as well. I think they're very helpful. When you increase your somatic education, that's incredibly important. I've heard of a physiotherapist that I was working with, she said she worked with a violist, and she said this field is very well established in the music scene. And I think she asked this violist, can you please show me where your X, Y, Z body part is, or where the pain is, or where you think your movement is coming from? And that person had no idea.
Lynn Kuo:
And that's not dissimilar to my experience either. I don't think I ever had an education on where movements come from, where I'm storing tension, where I could release tension in order to facilitate a more free bow stroke. So, I, for this reason, really love mapping. Have you done body mapping?
Leah Roseman:
No.
Lynn Kuo:
Okay. Yeah. Body mapping I was introduced to through Jennifer Johnson, who's in St. John's, Newfoundland. She wrote the book, What Every Violinist Needs To Know About The Body. And I've had her as a guest artist in my bootcamp, teaching mapping, and her book, she just released a new book, and her knowledge is incredibly useful for me as a violent educator. She's a violinist as well. And she also teaches her students. And I think her students are incredibly lucky. She herself has helped improve her own technique, but also heal herself from her own injury. And then she takes that knowledge and helps all sorts of people around the world, players in the New York Philharmonic. She's done a lot of educating in New York city. She has students and clients all over the world.
Lynn Kuo:
But I love body mapping for the reason that it really increases the body awareness, as you said, so that when we're getting more in touch with the structure of our bodies and how it moves, from where it moves, where do movements come from, where we can find places of better balance in the spine, where we can actually more efficiently use our body. Then somehow tension is going to be melted away in places we don't need tension.
Lynn Kuo:
And obviously when we have less tension, we're going to create a better sound. So, I'm still digging into her books, I still watch the classes that she's taught in my own bootcamp. In fact, I interviewed her on my YouTube channel, and I still think that's one of the best interviews ever, because she literally gives a free body mapping workshop on my YouTube channel. And it has actually stimulated a lot of sales for her books, people from all over my social media contact me to reach her. So, I think it's great. I think all of this is really important.
Leah Roseman:
So, do you have any advice you would give young people starting out in the profession? It's really changed a lot. We had talked at the beginning of entrepreneurial skills, which is something of course we didn't learn at all when we were growing up.
Lynn Kuo:
Nope. I think what you said is probably what I would mention, because the pandemic has literally changed the entire face of our classical industry. There's no doubt about it. I see that you have created an excellent podcast. I've gone online. Lots of other people have gone online. Do we have the same playing field as we did five years ago? Absolutely not. Definitely not 10 years ago. It's completely changed.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I'm hoping that the paradigm will shift going forward for students now in conservatories, universities, and even younger, even with people who are still in, let's say, high school or younger, I hope that people will start to realize that opportunities can exist in our industry as a classical musician that do not necessarily involve a teaching studio, playing in a string quartet, or winning an orchestral audition. Let's look at the example of TwoSetViolin.
Lynn Kuo:
These two extremely gifted violinists, no doubt about it. They're extremely talented, but they have leveraged the power of media and reaching millions across the world. And they have developed a viable and respectable career. They're genuine talents and they deserve to have their success. But this is actually quite amazing because it can serve as an inspiration for people studying now and dreaming about their future careers, or even now that we're established in our own careers, we can actually think in that way as well, because look at this career being made through a social media platform, YouTube, or even Instagram, LinkedIn if you want, Snapchat, Facebook, any of these platforms can be monetized. Once you get monetization and hard work behind that monetization, then a bit of smarts and a bit of education, retraining, it is absolutely possible to forge your own possible career.
Lynn Kuo:
And it's precisely what I learned at the beginning of the pandemic. Do we have to wait for the phone to call? Do we have to wait for an email to arrive before we get paid? I think that's an old paradigm. So, what I would say in answer to your question to the next generation of musicians coming up, I think it's important to start thinking a little outside this old fashioned box. Sure, setting your sights to win an orchestral audition, great. However, do not close the door to other possibilities, what are your strengths? What can they be used for, for your own personal career development?
Lynn Kuo:
And they can be. If a musician is really good at technology, who's to say that you can't be a performing artist, as well as video editor, audio editor, or even a social media marketer, social media manager for somebody, or you could be extremely great at public speaking and then go into a platform like Twitch and live stream from your own home three times a week, earning advertising dollars.
Lynn Kuo:
This could be your income, if not a full-time income, at least a part-time income. I think this is really important and quite quite possible. With the advent of TikTok, people are making lots of money being TikTok stars. I think it is quite possible. It just requires a bit of creativity, and I would hope some new education in the educational institutions.
Lynn Kuo:
I would personally like to see more entrepreneurial minded courses, business minded courses in music institutions, because I don't think it's realistic to train everybody as a concert soloist or even orchestral musician, coming out of conservatories and universities. The jobs are getting fewer and fewer, and let's face it, with the pandemic showing us that orchestras are suffering. Let's look at the reality here, to be coveting an orchestra position, it's great, but it's getting even harder to get that.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I think it's easier. I think I've proved that it's getting easier to make your own professional paths going off the time worn path, the path that people have traditionally coveted. I think it's time, it's time to start thinking outside the box, perhaps collaborating with people in the business world, or in other art forms. I think it's important to think that way now.
Leah Roseman:
It's interesting with all this online music, because it became so crowded with all of us going online all at once. So, what do you think were your most effective strategies in order to make it through all the noise? Everyone else putting out so much noise?
Lynn Kuo:
Well, I guess you could argue both ways. It became crowded very fast, but is it really? As a classical musician, we're part of a very small niche group in the population. Because if you and I walked into a grocery store, well, let's say you and I didn't shop in the same grocery store. Let's say you walk into a grocery store. How many people would you think in that grocery store is a classical musician? You'd probably be the only one.
Lynn Kuo:
So, it may seem in our bubble that we have a glut of classical musicians going online and broadcasting and live streaming. It may seem like that, but in reality, we are still a very small slice of what's there out online. Let's look for example, video gamers, they probably dominate a big sector of YouTube, right? And we're still very small niche sector.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I'd say from my point of view, the more the merrier, I say, bring it on. Let's get everyone out there. Let's try to popularize our art form, and I think TwoSetViolin is the greatest example. I have encountered instructors in my salsa dance world and salsa dance instructors said, I follow TwoSetViolin. I don't even play the violin. Can you play 24th Caprice?" Because he's a salsa instructor, and he's asking me if I can play 24 because he has followed TwoSetViolin.
Lynn Kuo:
So, if you want to become, let's say, popular or cut through the noise, I think the best answer to that question is to be genuine to yourself, because there genuinely is no one like you. And that takes a bit of discovery. When you find out who you are, where your strengths lie, and I guess in the process, you're going to discover where you're not so strong.
Lynn Kuo:
You don't have to broadcast where you're not so strong. Go ahead and focus on where you are strong. Do you have an underlying interest in art? Do you have an underlying interest in hip hop? I don't know. It could be anything, in cooking. There's a violinist I know who's mastered Baroque violin and cooking as well. And so you can put these two together, create your own identity. There you go. You've cut through the noise, because you are unique. So, I think it is absolutely possible for every musician to do a little bit of self awareness exercise and discover where exactly do my strengths lie? Where am I unique? I mean, you've done precisely that you've launched your podcast. This is where you are unique.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. So, I launched my YouTube right when the pandemic started just to help my students. So, I have almost a thousand videos on my YouTube. I recorded hundreds and hundreds of etudes, all the RodeCaprices, Gaviniès, beginner stuff, scales, and I have all these violin tips, but for the longest time I had 10 subscribers. So, now I have just over 500, but it's been very slow.
Leah Roseman:
And I offer lots of free pedagogy workshops and master classes. And I've been doing really amazing connections all over, and I don't have to rely on it for my income. I actually have a job. And this is my side thing, which I enjoy. But yeah, a lot of people said to me, I don't know why you're not bigger. And I was like, I have no idea. I think that it is a little bit noisy. I do think there's a lot of things out there and some of the stuff I recorded, I just didn't think there were people explaining things clearly enough or there wasn't a good enough version of whatever it was. So, I thought, let's do it. So, yeah, that's what I mean. I think you've done very, very well, a great product and wonderful explanations. But, yeah, I do think it's crowded. I think there's a lot of...
Lynn Kuo:
I guess you could say, in answer to that comment I would say that it doesn't hurt to take a few courses, study as much as you can, I've taken courses myself on YouTube, Instagram, and I'm constantly reading what comes into my inbox in terms of educating myself on the intricacies and the newest developments in social media. That doesn't hurt to stay abreast of what the changes are. I'm certainly not the best at leveraging algorithmic changes. And that's part of the equation. You may have the best teaching delivery. You may have the best videos. You may have a great explanation of how staccato works in the bow, but if people can't find you, then that's a shame for them, isn't it? So, part of the equation is learning. What exactly are these algorithmic beasts all about? So, you may have to consider playing the game, right? So, this is what I mean by saying that students now coming up, how can they learn?
Lynn Kuo:
How can we, all of us, you and I, students coming up into the next generation, how can they appropriate some of these, let's say, 21st century, tech savvy strategies so that they can take their musician skills and put it on a platform that is visible. So, I think to leverage the skills that we have as a musician, we need to also shore up some very crucial skills that come under the umbrella of entrepreneurialism, marketing, self promotion. Because if you have all of the amazing technical and music skills, they're not going to be as visible as easily. Maybe you will shoot up into stardom easily. But for many of us, it's very difficult. So, there is another subset of skills that does require a little bit of attention. And I treat that as if I'm learning a new instrument.
Lynn Kuo:
So, just as I'm learning that scale, this arpeggio, that etude, that concerto, you could take the other bucket of entrepreneurial skills, I'll look into that bucket and see I have to shore up on my copywriting skills. Then I have to look into how to manage my YouTube channel. I see I have to learn how to create a better graphic. Okay, so I'm going to learn how to use Canva a little bit better.
Lynn Kuo:
I see that there's some in intricacies on the latest developments on Instagram, or on Facebook, and ads are now changing on YouTube, and what's the best way to keep people watching your channel. All of these things are little tiny things that I can start to learn little bit by little bit by little bit, as if I'm learning and practicing another instrument.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I think it's important for musicians nowadays, whether you're already established in a career, and particularly if you're an up and coming musician wanting to start your career, to start looking at these skills that you can add to your complete toolbox, because they're only going to help you get ahead. So, to cut through the noise, maybe it's not so much as cutting through the noise, but appropriating some new skills that can help leverage, boost your visibility.
Lynn Kuo:
So, I think it's not a bad idea to look at where we can learn. And that's why I love being a perpetual student. There's always something we learn and it doesn't have to be in terms of the violin.
Leah Roseman:
For sure, yeah. Growth mindset, right?
Lynn Kuo:
Yes. It never ends. I personally think we never stop growing until we're six feet under the ground, it never ends.
Leah Roseman:
Well, thanks so much for your time today. It was really interesting talking to you.
Lynn Kuo:
Thanks, Leah. I really appreciate you asking me to be on your show.
