Edison Herbert Transcript
Edison Herbert:
Because sometimes you can feel like you've got to go with a trend and you've got to follow the trend and what everybody else is doing, you've got to do because that's going to get you from A to B. And I would just suggest stick with the path that you are on, the one that you think you're going to enjoy. Because I don't think anyone wants to play music they don't enjoy. So go on your path and ignore - when you're playing for four other people, other artists and whatever, okay, be versatile and whatever else it is. But I think it's important to know where your journey, where you want your journey to take you.
Leah Roseman:
Hi, you're listening to Conversations with Musicians with Leah Roseman. This podcast strives to inspire you through the personal stories of a diversity of musicians worldwide with in-depth conversations and great music that reveals the depth and breadth to a life and music. This week's guest is the British guitarist, Edison Herbert, who plays melodic and soulful groove based music that will lift your mood. We are featuring his compositions from a couple of his albums, and you'll learn about his personal journey in music that has led to his career as a full-time performer. He talked to me about some of his mentors and influences, including George Benson and his perspectives as a black artist navigating the music scene in the UK. I found him to be warmly engaging and candid, and we circled around to topics that impact all of us, such as dealing with self-knowledge, creativity, and the need to be persistent and keep true to what's important to us.
Like all my episodes, you can watch this on my YouTube channel or listen to the podcast, and I've also linked the transcript to my website, leah roseman.com. Did you know that this podcast is in Season 4 and that I send out a weekly email newsletter where you can get access to sneak peeks of upcoming guests and be inspired by highlights from the archive? Have a look at the description of this episode where you'll find all the links. Speaking to such a diversity of people shines a light on the persistence required to attain mastery in any field. I try to constantly improve every aspect of this podcast. Since I take care of all the many jobs of research, production and publicity, I really do need the help of my listeners to keep this project going. Please consider buying me a coffee through my support page, which is linked to PayPal. Thanks so much. And now to the episode.
Hey, thanks so much for joining me today.
Edison Herbert:
Oh, it's a pleasure.
Leah Roseman:
So I love your music and it's so nice to have this really feel-good music. I'm curious if we could start maybe with your journey in music. You started doing classical piano, right? Like a lot of jazz musicians.
Edison Herbert:
That's right. I grew up in a musical family, two brothers that also play. First of all, I had church musicians. That's my first introduction to music. And from there started playing around with instruments. There was always an instrument in the house or there was a piano or whatever. And so I just started dabbling with it and eventually my mom and dad sort of thought, okay, we're going to send all three of them to learn to play the piano. So we had a music teacher come around to the house and she used to teach us piano. So that's where it began. And then we'd practice and play the tunes that we were taught. And my mom would sit beside us by the piano and every time we made a mistake, she'd say, go back and do it again. And that's where it all began. So the discipline of practice came from there, I think.
Leah Roseman:
So in terms of guitar, you were self-taught at the beginning, right?
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, for the most part. I mean, I have had a few teachers here and there, but for the most part I just listened to records and watched people's hands and listened and did my best to figure things out from wherever I could, books back then videos showing my age now there weren't so many video tutorials and all that sort of stuff. So we mainly used books and records.
Leah Roseman:
And you were playing with gospel choirs growing up as you developed as a guitarist, that must have influenced your music.
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, I mean, firstly, mainly piano work, really playing with got small gospel bands, choirs, and then later on he used the guitar as part of a bigger band situation with choirs and other gospel situations as well.
Leah Roseman:
So I was hoping we could share a couple tracks from your albums, which I love. And I think you have a new album you just recorded. That'll be coming out soon as well.
Edison Herbert:
I have a new one that will be coming out probably March, end of March, that kind of time, maybe slightly later. Yeah, and it's different to the previous one as well, so some interesting things happening.
Leah Roseman:
Well, how's it going to be different?
Edison Herbert:
This album is more of a kind of straight ahead, but also still got the catchy element to it where I've got a couple of pop tunes and arrangements of pop tunes, which I really, really like. I like to mix and match and make it accessible for people so that they can, you don't have to be a jazz person to hear it, that sort of thing. And also, I've also got an American vocalist who sings on one of the tracks, so we've got Cherisse Scott that will be singing one of the tracks on the album, a very special,
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. You've collaborated with her before, right?
Edison Herbert:
I have, yes. Yes. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Is she living in London or?
Edison Herbert:
No, actually many years back, I did some theater performances in the States and Cherisse was involved as a singer in a few of the productions. So we did a few performances in the States and in Bermuda as well.
Leah Roseman:
Okay. Well, before we get into more of that, it'd be great to play a track and I was wondering if you had any videos that you've already put out there, but we could include just because some viewers really prefer the video version of this podcast, if they could see.
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, I've got some videos on, they're already on YouTube, but I can send them over to you
Leah Roseman:
On your album Time for Love. I Wanna Wake up with You, has such a great groove. Would that be okay, if we?
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, that's a great tune. Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorites.
Leah Roseman:
If you're listening to the audio version of the podcast, this video you're about to hear will be linked in the show notes to Edison's YouTube channel (music)
This was recorded at King's Place London, and this performance features Sean Hargreaves on Piano and Keys, Neville Malcolm on Bass, Pete, Adam Hill on drums, Ian Luson on Rhythm Guitar and Edison Herbert on lead guitar.
And speaking of musical theater and shows, you were arranger and music director for Unforgettable. That was a tribute to Nat King Cole, right?
Edison Herbert:
That's right. Unforgettable first featured another American artist who was in the UK called Clark Peters. He was actually one of the writers of the show, and we kind of performed it throughout the UK, did a West End, and then another American artist called Monroe Kent took over. So I came over to the States and we set it up over there and we did a hell of a lot of traveling and I didn't realize a place could be so big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's an amazing show that shows the life of Nat King Cole, and it just really explains what special musician he really was.
Leah Roseman:
I think he was the first black performer to star in his own TV show.
Edison Herbert:
That's probably right. Yes. Amazing piano player.
Leah Roseman:
So do you have any stories from that tour?
Edison Herbert:
I think my first experience is returning up in New York and it being so cold because it is cold over here, but it's that much colder in the States when it gets cold. We basically rehearsed in New York and then we just traveled and ended up Route 66 and all over the place, and I saw so much, and I experienced so much just being in the country and meeting people and seeing things. And the good thing is you've got theaters everywhere in schools and everything, so you've got, there's so much scope for theater performers to practice their art, which I think is amazing.
Leah Roseman:
You feel it's less so in the UK?
Edison Herbert:
Oh, definitely. Yes. In schools, it is the quality of theater as well where you can put professional performances on. You've got in America, they've got 'em in schools, and it is just accessible. So you can tour and you can perform in all of these different areas where the UK, we don't really have not that kind of set-up.
Leah Roseman:
Okay, interesting
Edison Herbert:
And it's good for the arts. There's so much opportunity to find a location and perform.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, it's interesting. I'm in Canadian and a lot of Canadians, if they want to have a touring career, they have to go to the States because Canada, we're just too spread out and we don't have the population, but there's red tape for a Canadian performer to work in the States, you have to get approval and all that. Not always so easy for musicians just to play anywhere.
Edison Herbert:
Yes, yes, yes. I think we've got the same thing over here now with the separation between Europe and the UK. So the traveling's a bit more difficult and you got the red tape is all set out, so you've got to find a way to make it work.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, I was curious because you'd got some funding from the Arts Council and I was curious if it was a little bit like in Canada we have the Canada Council that gives touring grants and recording grants. Is it similar setup over there?
Edison Herbert:
I'm not sure what you've got in Canada, but what we do here sometimes is that an artist can apply to the Arts Council and put forward a project, and basically, obviously you've got to lay out exactly what you want to do, all the criteria, all the audience you want to reach, how many performances you want to do, the usual things, and you just have to put it all down on a form. It's quite detailed, so it takes a while to put it all together and then you just submit your application and you see what comes back and if you fail, you put it back in again or you change something and hopefully it is accepted. So that's what I did for the Time for Love project. And initially it was just going to be a tour. It wasn't going to be going to be a recording, and then Covid took place, so it was a matter of either the project stops until everything opens up or I make use of the time, and I had to change my application slightly and say, look, COVID is here and I'm going to keep going. And so I'm suggesting I do a recording and I use some of this time to put it together, do the arrangements and all the rest of it. And that's what I did, and they accepted it. So I put that together. And then just as Covid, came out of Covid, we went into the studio and it was recorded, all of it's recorded live. We had a great time in the studio with some amazing British musicians.
Leah Roseman:
So you have people you like to work with all the time.
Edison Herbert:
That's a luxury really, because the people you want to work with all the time, they normally get busy. So I've got a nucleus of people that I work with, and if one's busy, then I go to plan B and not necessarily meaning plan B, but someone else who will take on the role. So I up and down the country as well, because obviously it's like you play in one area and it's like you've got to make it cost effective as well. So I've got quite a few musicians I use in the north of England, and then when I'm down south, it's a different set and that's how I make it work.
Leah Roseman:
So you're from Leeds. Do you go up north to perform pretty often because you have a network there or how does that work for you?
Edison Herbert:
I'm from Leeds, which is in the north, and so I've got a nucleus of people I work with up there. Prior to that, I was based in London, so that's the south. So I had quite a few musicians that I work with there. So between the two we kind of make it work. And now I'm working on the Midlands, so I'll have a nucleus in the Midlands as well. So depending on where I am, there'll always be a kind of regular nucleus of people that I work with.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. Now you do quite a bit of teaching?
Edison Herbert:
Not so much now. I used to, but incidentally, I actually trained as a primary school teacher at one point, so I kind of used that at times with the teaching I do if I teach kids or whatever. But I've got a few students that I'm working with at the moment. But I've kind of cut it down to focus on the performance side of things.
Leah Roseman:
But during Covid was that you were able to do more teaching or teach online? How did that work for you?
Edison Herbert:
To be honest, during Covid, I didn't do that much teaching. What I actually did was I used the time to pick up on some other skills, which are just useful to musicians. So it was sorting out the website, making sure it was okay, although I had someone who did things with it. You've got to update things, you've got to keep things current. So I spent a lot of time learning to do all the things that I neglected and always relied on someone else to do. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And music production, you do some production?
Edison Herbert:
Oh, yes. I actually enjoy being in the studio environment. I've been an avid Pro Tools user for many years and all of my own productions, I do the mixing. I also do quite a bit of writing, so everyone does it slightly differently. There are times when I write and finish whole production on my own using whatever technology is available to me. And there are other times when my mindset frame of mind is saying, I don't want to do everything on my own, and you want to do it another way and use musicians to play their part in their role as opposed to doing it yourself. And there's two sides to everything, and I think both are equally as important and useful, and I think, well, I tend to use them at different times for different reasons and different things, but actually the interaction side of things with all the musicians is what I enjoy most. It's just really nice to feed off other people, whereas when you work alone, sometimes you have to have an extra coffee or something to get going. Yeah, yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So you're a vocalist as well. I think you sing a couple tracks. Which one was I thinking about? Oh yeah. Is She Is She Not, are you the lead vocals on that?
Edison Herbert:
I put, originally I was going to be the lead vocalist on it, and I actually did the guide and everything, but one of my friends who thought he wanted to, my approach to my music is quite loose and open and I'm kind of open to ideas, so I'm willing to try things. And so basically I did put down a lead vocal on it and one of my friends was saying, oh, I'd like to have a go. So we went in the studio, we did our thing, and I actually preferred his to mine. So a friend of mine, Richard McCoy, is his vocal and I'm doing backing vocals on it as well. So yeah,
Leah Roseman:
Now you're going to hear an excerpt from, Is She Is She Not on the album Time for Love(music)
If we could talk about George Benson, he's a mentor and an influence. Can you talk about how you met him?
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, George Benson. I actually did a show called Guitar Star on Sky Arts, and originally what happened was a friend of mine said, there's a competition and George Benson's going to be one of the mentors, and I actually, I'm not really into competition when it comes to music. I think everyone brings something to the table. So I actually thought about it and it was probably the last hour where applications were going to close. I thought, okay, I'll meet George Benson if I can do this. So I thought, okay, so I put something together and sent it in, and then they basically called me in, had a quick interview, played a couple of tunes for them, and they asked if I'd like to go on the show. So I said, okay, that'd be great. So on the first performance, George was sitting, all the mentors were just sitting in the panel and just not so far away from you as well.
So got on the stage, I sat down and I looked up and there was George with his thumbs up and I was like, okay. So that was an interesting moment because you really, I've listened to George for so many years, probably got every album he's done, whatever, and it's like, okay, he's here and it's actually going to be listening to me play. So you've got to straighten up and you've got to try and ignore the fact that he's there to get through it. So played, I think the song I played was, It Could Happen to You, a really popular jazz standard. And when I'd finished and I was just packing up, putting everything away, it was Tony Conte. I think George must have asked Tony Conte to come down and asked me to come and see him. So I was like, oh, I walked over, we sat down and had a really good conversation about, we just talked about all sorts of things that it was a natural kind of conversation and we were just talking about albums, just what we were doing, what shoes we like, just all kinds of stuff. When he just whisper it in my ear, just give me a call. Later on, I'm at such and such hotel. We just got talking and ever since then we've kept a connection and since then we've had some really, really nice moments.
Leah Roseman:
When you're on the States on tour, had you met him at that point?
Edison Herbert:
There's a few times where I know we played Arizona, and I know he lives in Arizona. One of the bass players that we used actually knew him and he actually called him and was chatting, but we weren't sure. He just got off a plane after doing a gig somewhere, so we weren't sure if he was going to come down or not on that occasion he didn't So I didn't get to meet him then. He's so positive, really positive and really encouraging, and he is always interested in what you're doing.
Leah Roseman:
It's wonderful to hear. Is there a favorite album of his that you think people should hear if they're not familiar with his music?
Edison Herbert:
He's an interesting artist because he's been through quite a few different genres or timeframes or whatever, even just jazz wise as well. There's a great album he did with Jimmy Smith where he plays a couple of tunes on it, things like Mimosa. He's got some great tracks that he plays on that. I think it was Mash he played, they play the tune Mash and there's a few other tunes, but the World is a Ghetto. That was the album that got me. He had, I think it's The World is a Ghetto. There's quite a few tunes on that album, I can picture it. And I used to sit in the car with a few friends of mine and we were rewinding the track. The World is a Ghetto because it's just a great version, but he's got so many different albums with, they've all got different sound. Some are a little bit more modern, some a little bit older sounding, some organ trio or stuff, whatever it is. So he's got it all. So I think you just have to go to the best of, first of all. Yeah, see which era you might like best.
Leah Roseman:
It's interesting now because of streaming that there's so much available, but I think for especially young people, they might not know of older artists or it's just too much available. But growing up you had fewer options. There's like the radio or getting some cassettes. Were there other artists you listened to a lot that really influenced you?
Edison Herbert:
There's so many great artists for a while, I just listened to a lot of guitarists. There's all sorts. There's so many different guys. Grant Green, Wes Montgomery were two, the three of them, George Benson, Wes Montgomery, Grant Green were my favorite options mainly because they really, in my opinion, they really knew how to connect with an audience and they choice of repertoire was always, it was accessible. And I think it's quite easy to forget that you can increase your audience if you think about what you put in front of them, because everyone, it's like food. Everyone doesn't eat the same thing. So if you mix it up and put different ingredients in, then you are more likely to increase your audience.
Leah Roseman:
I was wondering if you wanted to include something like your first album, My Favourite Tunes, Volume One. I was wondering if you're going to keep that title with more volumes, but Loves in Need of Love Today. I really like that tune. Would that be cool to include that?
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Leah Roseman:
The next Tune is Love's in Need of Love Today from Edison's first album, my Favorite Tunes (Music)
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I was wondering if you might be willing to speak to the African diaspora in terms of being a Black musician in the UK and your connection with other Black music.
Edison Herbert:
Okay. Do you mean in terms of the work situation or do you mean in terms of playing the music?
Leah Roseman:
No, my question about Black music, I was curious because on your website, I think you say, I play Jazz, Funk, Soul, maybe something else, and Black music. And I thought, what does he mean by that? And that I was kind of looking it up and it was like, music of the Black diaspora includes the Caribbean and African music, and I thought, oh, yeah, that makes sense. But that, of course, all those other genres ultimately came from Africa too, Jazz and so on.
Edison Herbert:
Yes, I mean, I guess the term Black music, just basically anything that came from Caribbean, Africa, wherever, those were all my influences, but my influences come from wherever as well. So yeah, I guess I just try and I think what I'm trying to say is that I like to mix and match, have good ingredients so that I can mix it all up. And you might not like this, but someone else will like that, so that people can appreciate and step in and out of it, because it's very difficult to, if people are not used to hearing jazz, a lot of people just, it goes above their heads unless you give them something to latch onto, you lose an audience that you could possibly pick up, by the way.
Yeah, I think as a Black artist in the UK, let's say for example, I think a lot of us grow up playing by ear, for example, and we don't all take the time to read music as such, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's just different.
So I think one of the things I learned when I went to college, for example, when I did a year at music college, was that that was an integral part of being a well-rounded musician, I guess simply because it opens up a few other options to you. So I think that's one of the areas where I think, I guess for the most part, Gospel musicians, we tend to not really need to read. It's all mainly ear based, and in order to work in other environments like theater and big bands and stuff like that, I think you need some, well, you need to be able to read to a point, so you've got the ability to blend in and work in those situations. So I think simply being put in those situations has given me an insight into what's necessary in order to help make a living. So I've been able to perform in theater quite a few shows. It was recently in, it was a Get Up, Stand Up that was a Bob Marley musical.
Without reading, it would've been impossible to do it. It's just certain skills you naturally work with your ear naturally fall back on that because that's where you're from. However, there's other skills that you can incorporate, which can, I guess just give you a few more opportunities in terms of working. I think on the Jazz circuit anyway, there are, I would say less people of colour working in that genre. I think, I don't know really why it is. I think maybe it's just one of those things, but we are constantly having to try and push boundaries to get into different venues, et cetera, et cetera, the usual kind of thing. So I think we just have to be the best we can be and just keep pushing forward really. Whatever the world is we're live in, we've got to make the most of it. So that's kind of my approach to working as a musician.
Leah Roseman:
How have you had racist incidents where it's been really obvious in terms of getting work?
Edison Herbert:
In terms of getting work and the whole situation? It's never totally blatant or obvious. I guess the usual comment I am used to hearing is we are trying to, you are asking for a gig somewhere. You've played there a few years ago and you think, okay, it'd be nice to go and work at that club again. And the usual thing I hear is we're trying to diversify and change up the program, whatever it is. But if you haven't been there for a few years, then you're bringing back something that's different by the time you get back there anyway. But we have to work around it, and that's all you can do. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Were your ancestors coming from the Caribbean to the UK? I was kind of curious about that.
Edison Herbert:
Yeah, that's correct. My parents, both of my parents are from a very small island called Nevis, St. Kitts Nevis, and my dad was a passionate book reader who wanted to give us every possible opportunity in life. And so he made sure that we all could play, not necessarily he wanted us to be musicians or anything like that. It was more of giving us the opportunity to explore.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. You mentioned at the beginning your siblings played, so was there some jamming happening in your family? Just music making,
Edison Herbert:
I think we're all totally different personalities. So the one's a total classical musician, so we're all at different ends and one's got no concentration, so it's just frustrating to, so we didn't really jam, but occasionally we'd play the odd piece in church and make it work. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Well, you're playing is very melodic, and although it's like groove based, there's improv in there, but it's more, yeah, I feel like it's more melodic, you know what I mean, than some jazz guitarists.
Edison Herbert:
I think I always remember as a child, there was a guy that, the first person that introduced me to Wes, he kind of said, have you heard Wes, first of all? And it was like, no. So he told me to come by the house and I've got some it for you. So he let me a Wes Montgomery record, which I took home and played it. I was like, wow. And he just said, give back when you finished with it. And I spent quite a bit of time with it, and that was my introduction to Wes, and it was the sound of the guitar that got me. I was hooked on the guitar firstly, and it was the clean sound of the guitar, meaning with no effects, no, just a straight amp and little bit of reverb. And it was just the sound Wes could get. And it was amazing that he just played with his thumb and he achieved things that people just couldn't imagine. And it's the way of playing that incorporated to so much harmony in the lines that he plays. Even if the chords weren't there, you'd still hear what the harmony was.
And that's what Wes did for me. And then I listened to people like Grant Green and George Benson, and as I said, those are my three main influences. And mainly because I just like the way how they can capture an audience. And I mean, there's other guys, Tal Farlow, Barney Kessel, I listen to all the guitarists, they're all great players, but there's Rodney Jones, he's a great player as well. So Bobby Broom, he's out there doing his thing today, and he sounds great as well. So there's so many different players and they all bring something different to the table, but I am drawn to people that think, okay, let's do something with this, or let's change that, or let's be a little bit accessible at least so that someone else can be hooked on that melody or whatever it is.
Leah Roseman:
So do you have a guitar collection or is there one main instrument you use?
Edison Herbert:
I think I've got a collection. My approach was, I think I got three or four, I think it was three jazz boxes, but I've got a special Ovation. It's an Adamas Ovation that I bought in the States many years ago that I use for acoustic things and a little Baby Martin, which sounds great plugged in. It's just a great sound, great tone. And then I've got a few kind of Strat kind of guitars and Les Paul. I really like the Les Paul because, but I use them all for different things, so if it is not jazz, I'll be using one of the other guitars, which will give me what I need. Yeah. But to have, I tend not to collect just for having sake, you know what I mean? I like to have a quality guitar that will give me a sound that I think. Okay, I like that sound. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So you went to Guildhall when you were younger. Do you have any memorable musical memories from that time?
Edison Herbert:
Oh, the Guildhall was a journey. I think it was my first journey into the world of, I guess, playing with a big band. When I remember we were there and we played Ronnie Scotts for a week with, it was Randy Brecker. So I think there was two guitarists, so one was on the other one was off. And that was actually in hindsight, the best thing because when I was off, sometimes when Randy Brecker could be in the dressing room, we'd be just have a chat. He probably wouldn't remember now, but I remember back then he was just amazing to be around such a great musician.
Leah Roseman:
He's a trumpet player,
Edison Herbert:
Trumpet player. Yes, yes, yes.
Leah Roseman:
So Ronnie Scotts is such a legendary jazz club. So you were in the big room, I imagine?
Edison Herbert:
That's right, yeah. Yes. I mean, clubs change over the years, and I think back then it was very different to how it is now, and it was a place where just musicians would gather. We just go down and stand at the back and listen to different artists and whatever. But now it's like the New York scene. So you have one show and then that audience leaves and the second show starts. So it's all changed. Yeah, all changed. It's still a great place.
Leah Roseman:
When I was in London last time, I was looking to hear some jazz, so we went there, but it was the small room upstairs, and I forget who was playing downstairs, but it was one of the biggest names escapes me, who it was. So then I happened upon a documentary about Ronnie Scotts. It was quite interesting about him and the club and how it got started.
Edison Herbert:
I'll look into it.
Leah Roseman:
You might want to check that out. What's the jazz scene in London? It's such a big city.
Edison Herbert:
I think over the years it's changed. I remember when I first went down there, there were a lot of places to play, and I think over the years, I think there's just more musicians and less places to play. And especially after Covid, some places closed down some places, new places are opening and such and such forth. But it's still a great place to play music. It is. Got a few great venues and there's quite a lot of musicians around music colleges and whatever else. So growing. There's lots of young musicians coming through as well. So it is changing all the time.
Leah Roseman:
I realized I kind of glossed over Guildhall, you said it was like this great experience and you mentioned playing with Randy Brecker, but what else about that experience?
Edison Herbert:
I think it is good to be around so many musicians that are all trying to do the same thing, but something different, if you know what I mean. So everyone's got different influences and everyone's at a slightly different, everyone works at a slightly different pace. Some people like playing fast tunes and you got to fit in somehow. So it's an introduction, how to fit in. And to even play music, that's not really your thing. So you've got small band experiences, you got even duos. You've got, like you say, everyone's got different tastes, and so you have to be a bit versatile. And I think I learned that you have to approach every situation with an open mind and be willing to try new things.
Leah Roseman:
Now, I'm curious, when you went to school to become a school teacher, was that just to have a solid backup plan?
Edison Herbert:
That's a very good question. I think part of it was my father always stressed that having a good education was very important. So the honest truth is I really couldn't think of what I really, really wanted to do, apart from, there was only two things that I really enjoyed. One was sport and one was music. And in between that was getting some form of education or at least something that you could do. And the word in the house was, if you can do something, someone will want you, and if you can't, then nobody's going to want you. So we were all encouraged to do things. And so that's probably how I found myself in that space.
Leah Roseman:
And when you were spending more time teaching music, did the skills that you learned through that help you dealing with kids?
Edison Herbert:
Oh, I didn't teach music though. When I was teaching in school, it was just more general. So it was a difficult, not difficult. It was an interesting time. It was almost like a transition time because I would be working, but I'd be up really late at night, try to learn my instrument, et cetera. And the mornings would be terrible. Just getting up in the morning and having to get into work would be almost like a trial because you'd been so late and you might have had three hours sleep or whatever it was. So I spent as little time as possible preparing for work and as much time as possible doing what I enjoyed, which was music. So I guess it wasn't fair for the kids, but it's just something you go through.
Leah Roseman:
Now actually in terms of a musician's lifestyle, especially, you're playing clubs, so you have to be up late most of the time. And you mentioned you love sports, so do you have routines that help keep you healthy with all the, it can be really hard on the body to be touring around and up late every night.
Edison Herbert:
I think what it was was with the sport thing, I used to, I just played a lot of sport at one time, then for many years I had no routine at all, so it would just be whatever. And I think what sustained me in those years was the fact that I'd done so much prior to that. But now I tend to try and make sure that I do some form of exercise every week, some kind of calendar, put it in the calendar so that there's at least two or three sessions, whether it's even just walking, whether it's a little bit of nothing too heavy, but some little weight session or just a class that I might go to and just trying. I think sometimes you can be stuck in a position, you hold the guitar and you're stuck in that position for a few hours.
And if you don't get into the habit of, I guess, dealing with your posture, you can end up with all kinds of aches and pains and back pain because everyone sits differently or stands differently when they've got something on their shoulders. And it's so easy to not stand straight. And so I think it's really important to do something that kind of evens it all out and makes everything stray in one way because you're kind of off balance with a guitar. It's just how it is. Got this thing one side that, and so most people will be leaning one way or the other. So it's inevitable after a few years of that, if you don't look after whatever's going on, there'll be some form of strain. And then the fingers as well. I know quite a lot of people that have had repetitive strains and whatever else.
I think I've been fortunate, but it's something that people don't really talk about in terms of how to stay fit in terms of musically fit and what to do with your limbs, your arms, whatever it is that you use. And it's one of those things I guess that should be part of a schedule, whether you're teaching guitar, whatever it is, if you go to the gym and you're going to do a class or whatever, they're going to go through warmups and all kinds of things. And I think very often we turn up at a gig and there's no preparation at all. You just plug in and you start. And I guess that's the recipe for this disaster in the long term. So I guess it's a discipline to get there early so you can do whatever preparation you need and go from there, really.
Leah Roseman:
And I think when people are young, they maybe take things for granted. And as you get older, you realize, I certainly find as I've gotten older, I need to warm up much more than I did when I was younger. My joints are stiffer. You know what I mean?
Edison Herbert:
Yes, yes, yes. I think different instruments of their different challenges. And I think being a guitarist, for me, the challenges, physical challenges would be definitely your back because of the way you might stand or sit. And then it's just somehow you've got to keep your hands in shape somehow. You've got to do something with them to keep them supple. But also remember that none of these positions are natural positions for our bodies, in my opinion anyway. It is not natural to stand with a guitar and whatever, twist your hands around it or whatever you want it to. So I think it is important to actually address it in some way. And everyone's different. So what works for me may be different for someone else, but I think to bear it in mind and just to realize that even though when you're younger, it's a lot easier. But as time goes by, it's good to, once you start a habit of preparation or whatever it is, it's a good thing to keep it going. And hopefully it gives you a few more years doing what you do, what you enjoy.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. Yeah. I was reading some stuff on your website. You had good advice for students about singing along to internalize harmonies, and also I think you were addressing mistake people who start and then maybe get discouraged because they don't realize you need this long sustained effort, but it still has to feel fun. So I was wondering if you could reflect on that or if you had any advice for people starting out who want to play.
Edison Herbert:
I think the thing about teaching a student is everyone develops in a different way. And sometimes people learn in different ways as well. So what works for one student wouldn't necessarily be the best approach for another. So some of it's getting into the mind of the student and understanding how they tick or how they turn, whatever helps them to develop. And it may be simple things. It might be that one person needs you to do maybe smaller phrases to teach them so they can sustain it. Another person might think That's too short for me. I need a longer phrase so that I can have it all in my head. And then I, the other thing is getting students, especially people who it's just starting out to realize that it is a bit of an unnatural thing to put your fingers on some strings that are closely put together.
And it takes a bit of coordination and it will come in time. So everything you do, you need to really slow it down. And that's even for more advanced players. If you play things half the speed that you normally would and make sure that they're right. I was always told that a mistake that is practiced becomes what you do, and that's what you're going to end up with. So it's always a good idea to slow things down, use the correct finger in which, and then from there you've got a good basis to gradually speed things up. And the more you get into the habit of practicing something correctly is the more that habit goes on for everything you learn and everything else then just becomes natural. And then as you speed things up, it falls into place as opposed to falling out of place because you practice something wrong, you using the wrong finger, all of a sudden you try and speed it up and you think you've got it, and all of a sudden you're like, I've got to start all over again.
So I think sometimes there are occasions where someone just plays in a totally what we might think is a weird way of doing, and it works totally for them. But I think for the majority of people, most things are quite uniform. And the way that our hands and bodies work is quite uniform. And so therefore, if you get into the habits that you're taught, normally you'll progress quicker. So I would just, for anyone starting out, or even for people who play a little and want to keep moving a quicker pace, the first thing to realize is that sometimes slowing everything down will help you to get things right, first of all. And then when you start speeding things up, it's more likely to fall into place and your journey will probably be slightly quicker than having to relearn and do it again and again until you do it the correct way. So my advice is to slow down.
Leah Roseman:
I was just thinking, looking back, because you had a bit of a change in your life where you were trying to teach and do music and then you've been able to just do music for your career. So looking back on young Edison, would you have anything to say to him?
Edison Herbert:
I would probably just say a bit more patience instead of, because sometimes you can feel like you've got to go with a trend and you've got to follow the trend and what everybody else is doing, you've got to do because that's going to get you from A to B. And I would just suggest stick with the path that you are on, the one that you think you're going to enjoy. Because I don't think anyone wants to play music they don't enjoy. So go on your path and ignore when you're playing for four other people, other artists and whatever. Okay. Be versatile and whatever else it is. But I think it's important to know where your journey, where you want your journey to take you. So I would say, I would've said to a younger me, figure out where you want your journey to go, and then follow that journey and stick with it. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Beautiful. So thanks so much for this today. Really enjoyed talking with you, and thanks for sharing your music as well.
Edison Herbert:
Great. It's been a pleasure.
Leah Roseman:
I hope you enjoyed this episode. Pleased to share this with your friends and check out episodes you may have missed at leahroseman.com. If you could buy me a coffee to support this series, that would be wonderful. The link is in the description. Have a wonderful week.
