Elaine Klimasko
Leah Roseman:
Elaine Klimasko is a violinist and well-known teacher. She was the youngest member to join the newly formed National Arts Centre Orchestra of Canada in 1969, and in this conversation, we talk about those early years and she shares stories about some of her teachers, including Lorand Fenyves and Joseph Gingold. In 2003, Pinchas Zukerman asked Elaine to launch the first junior young artist program for the NAC Summer Music Institute, and she speaks about some of her experiences teaching there as well as advice for aspiring young players aiming to become soloists or professional orchestra players. I've added timestamps in the description and all of these episodes are available in both podcast and video format. The link is in the description as well.
Leah Roseman:
Good morning, Elaine Klimasko. Thanks for joining me.
Elaine Klimasko:
Good morning, Leah. Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to this.
Leah Roseman:
So you were a founding member of a very unusual orchestra. In 1969 was the first concert at the National Arts Centre Orchestra, and I've been a member for many years, but the thing is I grew up in Ottawa going to those concerts and being so inspired. So I knew when I was eight, I wanted to be a professional violinist, but I wanted to be on that stage with the orchestra, playing in the orchestra, that was my ambition, because it was such a wonderful model. So tell me what those early days were like. I'm really pretty fascinated, just the way the rehearsals were, the audition process. It was very different.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, absolutely. Well, I mean, I certainly didn't expect that because I hadn't even started university yet. I was just 18 and my teacher who was Lorand Fenyves, a great, great teacher, Israeli, and has produced so many fantastic students over the decades, for sure, he suggested strongly that I come to Ottawa to do this audition, and actually it was Montreal, pardon of me, auditions were in Montreal. So off I went and I had to get up at eight o'clock in the morning. The audition started at 8:00 AM and being still somewhat of a teenager, that was kind of early, but I managed and I got into this building and there in about the fifth or sixth row where 10 to 15 men in dark suits staring at me, not a suggestion of a smile, very polite, but very formal.
Elaine Klimasko:
And you know, in those days, I guess I had a little more chutzpah than I do know in the sense of, well, if you don't like the way I look or if you don't want to hear me play, that's okay, I'm going to play anyway. But it certainly wasn't a friendly environment, and I think that's just the way things were done then. So I started to play and I have fortunately through most of my life not suffered from nerves in performance. So I think I played well and I did get the job and there I came, 19 years of age, 1979. Was it 69? I can't even rem-
Leah Roseman:
'69.
Elaine Klimasko:
'69. Yeah. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
What did you play for the audition? Was it excerpts or a concerto?
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh my goodness. I didn't think I was going to be asked this question. I'm sure I played a concerto and I probably played the Bruch D minor because that's what I was sort of working on with him last. And I know they did ask for a few different movements and yes, there were excerpts, but you know, Mr. Fenyves had been a member of fine orchestras all his life and everything. So he knew the excerpts inside out. And actually it was a blessing to have someone like him help me to learn those because it was a firsthand introduction to all those great works. I hadn't even played in a youth orchestra because there wasn't one, I played in a string orchestra with John Moskalyk, my teacher, the University of Toronto. But so it was all new to me. There was a fair bit of practicing to do, and a lot of listening on recordings to make sure I knew tempi and things like that.
Leah Roseman:
And I understand there were so many more rehearsals for each concert back in the day.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh my goodness. I think I had everything memorized. I have terrible memory for many things, but not for music. And I think I had everything memorized by halfway through the second rehearsal. It was just, I guess they just wanted to give us a great deal of time to be sure that we were comfortable as an ensemble, that we were comfortable with what Maestro Bernardi wanted to do, blah, blah, blah. And that's just the way it was. But of course the repertoire was new to me. I mean, I remember one of the first pieces was Prokofiev Classical Symphony and that's a bit of a dance up and down the fingerboard. It's not easy. And it did take some work to put it together for sure. But the musicians were terrific. Walter was at great concert master. He was very supportive of me, very father-like in a way in the beginning, just always telling me that, you know, his door was opened if I needed any advice or anything like that. And I mean, there were other young people, but I think I was the youngest. So it was quite an experience. Just even getting to rehearsal on time and everything, I had never had that rigid a schedule, you know what it's like when you're a student. So, but it was good.
Leah Roseman:
But most of the orchestra was in their twenties. Right? Like it was very young.
Elaine Klimasko:
Yeah. It was a young orchestra indeed. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Before talking to you, I actually took the time to read Sarah Jennings' "Art in Politics, the History of the National Arts Centre", because I've had that on my shelf all these years and I've been meaning to read it and I wanted to read it, and there's a quote in there where Mario Bernardi, who was the music director, founding conductor, had said, let me get this right. He said, he wanted to hire young musicians who had not become jaded by too much professional experience, which I found very offensive, but I think of a lot of conductors think that way, which, I hope it's not true for, the more experience you have, I think, I don't know. What do you think about that statement?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, I mean, it certainly wasn't applicable to somebody my age, I was at that stage where you do what you're told, still like being at home or whatever. And so if the maestro said, sit up, well, he didn't say sit up straight, but if he said, play that again in a different part of the bow. I mean, I paid attention. There were always a couple of cynical players. I remember in the very beginning getting, I won't suggest any names, but somebody came sauntering in about 15 minutes after the rehearsal started, and of course the whole orchestra stopped because he was making a bit of a ruckus, just positioning himself and everything else. And the conductor turned to him and said, "You're really quite late and this is disruptive." And he just looked at him and he said, "You should be very thankful that I'm here when I am."
Elaine Klimasko:
So it took all types. It took all types, that we were an interesting group of people and I was very fortunate to have a wonderful friend in the very beginning, who's ten years my senior, Jerry Csaba . It wasn't like a motherly figure, it was just like an older sister, I would say. And she was, we are still the very best of friends to this day and we had a long talk just yesterday and we love each other as family and she was very helpful in making me, shall I say, wise to certain things. Like she was a little protective of me, Leah, but in a very positive way, because you know, there are always a few bullies around and she just was able to sort of show me and help me, how to handle people that were a little sarcastic to me or whatever.
Elaine Klimasko:
There wasn't a lot of that, but there certainly was a tiny bit. I mean, when I first got here, I was put in a pretty high position, put onto the third stand and that created a lot of unhappiness with colleagues behind me who were older and much more experienced, but it was what it was. I didn't ask for that. That's where they put me. So what was I to do? And in all fairness, the reason they put me there was they thought I had talent, but they put me with somebody they felt was very experienced. And that was Joan Milkson because she was older and wiser and had a lot more orchestral experience, been at Juilliard, all those things. And it was actually, I enjoyed sitting with her, we became good friends. It was lovely.
Leah Roseman:
You mentioned John Moskalyk, he was your major teacher when you were growing up. And I understand he died very suddenly when you were 14.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, it was horrible. And one of the worst parts of it was I was a Canadian representative at the International Congress of Strings at Michigan State University. I don't know if you are familiar with that program, but it was a fantastic program. They brought students from every state and every province in Canada for eight weeks at Michigan State University. And the teachers were people like Joseph Gingold. I mean, they were amazing teachers there. And I had that opportunity. And while I was there, I got a call from my father saying that he just died very suddenly. He was a very heavy smoker and that probably was part of what happened. But I think, I can't remember, I think he was maybe 44 or something like that, but a terrible loss to the music world. I mean, great, great teacher. I don't know too much about his performing life. I think he might have been in the Toronto Symphony for a while, but his special talents certainly were with teaching and he had a lot really fine students, and dedicated students. I loved him dearly and I still think of him often.
Leah Roseman:
I've decided to insert a little footnote here about John Moskalyk. Since I did this interview with Elaine, I discovered that John Moskalyk tragically lost his job with the Toronto Symphony as one of the Symphony Six in 1951. He and his colleagues were denied entry to the United States when the Toronto Symphony was going to perform one concert there because they were suspected of being involved in communist activities during the terrible McCarthy era. The Symphony terminated their contracts. John Moskalyk had joined the symphony in 1946 when he was 26 years old. One of the reasons he may have been targeted was that he had conducted the Budapest Orchestra for two performances in 1949. One of John's most famous students was Steven Staryk, also a Ukrainian Canadian who was one of the Symphony Six to lose his job as well. Staryk went on to become Concertmaster of many prominent orchestras, including the Chicago Symphony before returning to the Toronto Symphony as Concertmaster many years later. Staryk studied with John Moskalyk as his first teacher in 1938 until 1942. After losing his job with the Toronto Symphony, John Moskalyk joined the faculty at University of Toronto and the Royal Conservatory of Music. He was born in 1918 and died in 1966 when he was 48 years old. And now back to our conversation.
Leah Roseman:
Did he have studio classes like master classes with ...
Elaine Klimasko:
No, he didn't, Leah. That is something that came a little bit later, perhaps in universities that was always the case, but the other thing to remember is that I lived in Hamilton, Ontario. So every Saturday, my poor father, I mean, I have sisters who were also violinists, and we were all on a full special string scholarship, all four of us. So we got in the car at the crack of dawn. I just hated it. And we'd fight in the backseat, doing that long drive to Toronto. And then the lessons would start. But after the lessons we did do little bit of, there was a little chamber thing. I just had re recalled that now. Yeah, we did. It wasn't a full size. It was just like a chamber orchestra.
Leah Roseman:
Were you waiting for your sisters? Did they study with the same teacher?
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh yes. Yes they were. And my father, God bless him, he sat there writing copious notes, which of course we never read. I mean, I do have one very funny story about that, those trips to Toronto. On one occasion, my older sister, it was her turn for, I guess she was having her lesson first or whatever, when she opened her violin case, it was full of comic books instead of her violin. John Moskalyk just had a very good chuckle, he laughed. He wasn't cross with her at all. It was just kind of funny.
Leah Roseman:
So was there kind of a competitiveness among the siblings because you were all doing the same thing?
Elaine Klimasko:
My father did some very strange things like in festival he sometimes put us in against each other and he just didn't think of it as a negative thing. It was, I guess, just a more competitive in a way kind of world that music festivals were a huge, huge thing. I mean, and we didn't just play in the Hamilton Kiwanis, we played in the Toronto Kiwanis. The Hamilton Kiwanis, the Saint Catherine's Kiwanis. The Guelph Kiwanis. I mean, I just was festivaled out by the time I was 10, and it wasn't necessarily all the same repertoire, when I think about the repertoire I went through in those young years and some of my students who complained that Elaine, that's too much for me to learn. I think, oh boy, you should see what I had to do!
Leah Roseman:
That must have helped you with nerves, because you're saying you didn't develop stage fright. So maybe all that performing when you were young helped.
Elaine Klimasko:
I had no stage fright, but it did hit me very severely at one point, but many, many years later when I was a member of the National Arts Centre Orchestra, I like to talk about this freely because I think it's very important for the world to hear this and to understand because I'm sometimes referred to as a kind of natural violinist, whatever that means, and I guess I don't show a kind of fear on stage or I don't get particularly quiet before performance or whatever things that happen to people, but Leah, it was just interesting. I don't know. I don't know how to explain this. It was, I just love to play and because I played a lot, I guess I just felt comfortable with the instrument, but with no indication that anything was going to change what happened, it suddenly did hit me.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, I don't remember what year. I probably don't want to remember what year, but it was just almost, it can be an almost paralyzing experience. And I'm sure that most of our colleagues, if they were honest, would admit that they had maybe had at least one episode of that in their lives. It's just the way it is. You're thrown onto a stage with a thousand plus people staring at you expecting something very special and you're worrying about all kinds of things. It wasn't so much the music I remember I would worry about or memory, because those things were easy for me. I was such a seasoned player because I started so young. I was three. It was, I don't know, just, I can't even explain what it was, what caused those nerves to suddenly appear. I guess I just started doubting myself a little bit. Like what if? The what if syndrome, you know?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
And we all have that, I guess from time. Most musicians, I think experience that, if they're going to be honest, I didn't talk about it at all in the beginning because I thought why, but now I talk about it all the time and my students just look at me, sometimes they hug me after I tell them that story. They just feel so relieved that I too had to deal with that, you know? Anyway.
Leah Roseman:
So just to close off with John Mos, I'm probably saying his name, wrong Moskalyk.
Elaine Klimasko:
It's on the second syllable, Moskalyk.
Leah Roseman:
So what was he like as a teacher? What did you learn from him?
Elaine Klimasko:
Everything. He wasn't a really intellectual kind of teacher. I think, he played in the Toronto Symphony, I believe, if my memory doesn't fail me, but he went through a lot of repertoire, but boy, every lesson started with Ševčik. I mean every single lesson, and dare you not have that prepared. And then the age you'd started with, I guess, Kreutzer, whatever the stage you were at and went up, but those were always listened to. And I remember on one occasion he asked me to play my etudes and Kreutzer, and I opened the book and it kept shutting because I hadn't practiced it. The pages kept fluttering, and he said, "I can see you haven't spent due time on this etude, young lady." But he was very personal.
Elaine Klimasko:
He held a cigarette between his second and third finger through the whole lesson and would occasionally take a puff and the smoke would come filling into my face, but everybody smoked then, so for some reason it just didn't bother me, but he was very, very kind. He was very ambitious and he was complimentary, but he saved the compliments for the right time. He always tried to find a constructive way to help, and he didn't scold, I mean, unless I didn't practice those subjects, but he just tried to find positive ways to help. I mean, in retrospect I realized that he didn't, and this is not a criticism because we're all guilty of something as teachers, but I wish he had spent a little more time on my bow arm in those formative years because it came back to sort of haunt me a little bit later on and I had a lot of correcting to do, which came later with a great teacher. But you can't address everything. I think at the peak, Leah, he had something like 48 students.
Leah Roseman:
Wow.
Elaine Klimasko:
It's pretty incredible. But I remember sometimes he would give extra lessons to the Klimasko sisters because we were involved in so many performances and music festivals, and he'd give up his Sundays, we'd drive to his home, and we'd all have our lessons. And my dad would be upstairs having coffee and cake with his, after the lessons with him and his wife, we were never invited for that. We were sitting in the car waiting patiently. The things we remember.
Leah Roseman:
How things have changed.
Elaine Klimasko:
Indeed. Yeah, they sure have.
Leah Roseman:
I was just thinking for people listening who aren't violinists, Ševčik wrote a lot of these sort of, not quite etudes, I'd say sort of drill exercises, mostly for shifting and also things like trail, so left hand, would you describe that's pretty much-
Elaine Klimasko:
I think that's a perfect description. The only thing you've left out is they're extremely boring.
Leah Roseman:
They are. And you know, I had to do this so much. Yeah. You know, so I'm curious if you use them with your students because I have avoided Ševčik because I hated it. But now I'm thinking I have to start doing that with my students.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, it's a kind of drill that has success. There's no question.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
But I think I have to say that I, you see, I don't teach any beginner students. I mean, I have in my life, but with those, I probably did do some Ševčik exercises, but I'm a little bit like you, etudes are very important to me and I make sure, I mean, with the older students they're doing the higher end ones, of course. But there always has to be an etude at the beginning of the lesson or a three after scale or something to that effect.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
But it wasn't fun.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
First to admit it, and he didn't write one book, he wrote many.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
Everything from double stops to whatever, but they're really, really boring, but I guess they worked.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. So when you went to Lorand Fenyves, how were the lessons different?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, there's a great story about that. Barb McDougall who was one of his more senior students, she's not that much older than me, maybe three, four years, but I'll answer your question first. The lessons were extremely long. He was so dedicated and I did not appreciate it. I just thought I just want to leave now. And his speech, he was brilliant, but a tiny bit, he was very, very soft spoken. So a tiny bit, shall I say monotonous. That sounds so disrespectful. I don't mean that, but it was hard to keep focused, and I was young, I was 12. Maybe I was even younger, so it was hard to keep focused. But I tried to, because, I mean, I realized he had a great reputation, but the funniest thing about him is he was so incredibly dedicated that sometimes my lessons were three hours long and I didn't appreciate that at the time.
Elaine Klimasko:
I mean, I'm ashamed to even admit that now, but a colleague, Barb ,Nelson McDougall's mother who also studied with him, came and audited a lesson once with me, and she told me this number of years ago and I was just mortified, but apparently at one point I turned to him. I said, "could you please tell me what time it is?" I was tired. I mean, just standing there for three hours. And he had this sort of monotone voice and you know what, I didn't deserve him in a way. I didn't appreciate him. He was a little too intellectual for me. And I mean, I think he was just incredibly intelligent man.
Elaine Klimasko:
The other thing he did that was really sort of fun though, was he did very unusual repertoire. He never, I didn't learn all the famous pieces that everybody else learned. Everything I learned was different. And he just enjoyed doing that. And in retrospect, I shared those kinds of works with my students now, too. I can't even think an example at the moment, but you know, there were many. A wonderful, wonderful man. I obviously learned a great deal from him, but it wasn't my most inspiring teacher. And I say that with, with reservation because he was a truly a great and unselfish man.
Leah Roseman:
I'm curious about the schedule. I mean, if he had so many students, were they waiting in the hallway while he took an extra two hours with somebody or?
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh yes.
Leah Roseman:
Oh, wow.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh yes. You never knew. And he was never criticized for that because I mean, it just showed incredible dedication, but I mean, he had no concept of time. No sense of time what so ever. It's like, he once told me, we were talking about that once in my later years when I was no longer studying with him, he told me once that he was that way with maps, he would pick up a map and his wife, he never learned to drive. He was terrified of driving. So his wife did the driving and he would ask her to, he was the map. He'd sit there with a map like this and then he'd turn it 90 degrees. Then he turn it 90 degrees this way his wife would just giggle. And finally just grab a map from him, go on with her thing.
Elaine Klimasko:
But he was really a great man. He really was a wonderful, wonderful human being. I just so wish sometimes that at this stage of my life, I could just have a conversation with him. First and foremost, thank him for all he did for me, because he's the reason I'm in the National Arts Centre Orchestra. I mean, I had to play an audition to get accepted, but he's the one who guided me towards that goal. And I just have so many fond memories of the things I learned with him and he had a wonderful class and great violinist and Terry Holowach I think he's still in the Toronto Symphony or at least he was for many years, things like that. Yeah. I was fortunate.
Leah Roseman:
But did you aspire to be a soloist when you were a teenager? Is that what you were working towards?
Elaine Klimasko:
Absolutely. I was going to just take over the world, you know> we're so naive at that age, it's just so funny, but I just, I mean, I was always complimented when I played and so I thought, well, I could do anything I want and not having any fears or stage fright or anything like that. And it can take me a very long time to learn something in some things, but in music, I'm very, very quick study and I don't know where that comes from and why, because I could be incredibly slow in other things, but I just, I have the piece memorized before I've gotten to the end of it. You know what I mean? It's just how my brain works, I guess.
Leah Roseman:
Well, I know you have perfect pitch. Maybe that helps.
Elaine Klimasko:
Yeah. I don't know what that perfect pitch, I have five sisters and a brother and four of us are violinists and we all have perfect pitch. I wonder where that comes from. I've often wondered about that. Do you have perfect pitch?
Leah Roseman:
I do not. And what I find interesting, the majority of my students tend to, but I mostly teach teenagers and they've been telling me that they start to lose it as they get older and it gets fuzzy. And what I find fascinating about this is that then they don't have strategies to fall back on like I do. Because I don't have perfect pitch, I have to rely on listening for intervals and relative pitch, but they aren't used to using strategies, so then they're lost. They don't don't know how to find the notes. So I find it's an interesting discussion to have with them.
Elaine Klimasko:
Very interesting. My goodness. I haven't had that discussion with anybody. I don't even, I mean, I don't have very many students right now in this particular point, but even with the orchestra schedule, our schedule's been so busy for some years and I don't think I ever had more than maybe 10 students, and that was, that was a little bit of a struggle, but I don't know. I just can't see myself going to a conservatory and I have been asked in the University of Ottawa and things like that, but I don't know if that's who I am to just sit in a, not four by four, but a small room and just, as they come in one after the other, that doesn't appeal me for some reason.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I was curious to ask you about that because we have parallel, I'm younger than you, but we enjoy teaching, but playing in the orchestras is the majority of our career.
Elaine Klimasko:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And I think, like for me, it helps me be a better player because I'm thinking about how to teach, but I think it makes me a better teacher because I'm performing as well.
Elaine Klimasko:
I agree. I mean, I think a student that has the opportunity to study with someone who performs and teaches is a very lucky student because they're seeing all aspects of a professional life, and that's something I've thought about a lot because there are a lot of teachers out there who don't perform or who quit performing for a variety of reasons. And I don't know how they can quite prepare those students for what's ahead. I had numerous discussions with Joseph Gingold about this and the two of us had a very special relationship because when I went to him, I was 29. I took a sabbatical from the orchestra. I hope I'm not jumping here.
Leah Roseman:
I was just, no, no, I was going to get to that. It's wonderful.
Elaine Klimasko:
Okay. Yes. So yeah, it was just one of the most magnificent, incredible special years of my life. And I don't even know sort of, I do know what possessed me to do it, the last year I studied with John Moskalyk, he had a talk with me and my father, and he had said that all his hard work and everything was in preparation for me to study with the great Joseph Gingold. And of course I never forgot that. I mean, my father probably didn't either, but anyway, so there I was, and, you know, I was with the orchestra and everything, and I thought, well, I'm just going to take a sabbatical. And I mean, I've been in the orchestra for how many years, I'm losing my-
Leah Roseman:
10, I believe.
Elaine Klimasko:
Math. It was 10. Yeah. So I just thought it might be sort of interesting. So off I went and he was fantastic to me. And I had my lessons at 7:30 in the morning, which I'm a very early riser and I love the morning more than any part of the day, I think. And he also was an early riser and there was a special court in Indiana, in the small town in Bloomington. Well, you went to Bloomington too, did you not?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I did.
Elaine Klimasko:
And Maxwell Terrace, I think it was called, and that's where he lived. And he lived in an apartment sort of, I was across the street and the person in the bottom of my apartment was Bill Preucil and Gwen Starker. And so I developed very, very special friendships while I was there and met some of the who's who of the music world today. But Mr. Gingold was so special to me, I guess in part, because I was a little bit older, but you know, I would, he lost his dear wife sooner than he should have, and he couldn't fend for himself. I could tell you a funny story about him. He took a vacation once a year and you know what he did? He went about 20 kilometers away to a little town and got a hotel room and sat there and watched soap operas.
Leah Roseman:
No.
Elaine Klimasko:
For two days. And that was his idea of a vacation. Isn't that a wonderful story?
Leah Roseman:
Strange.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, that's all he wanted to do. He loved television and he loved cake and pie. He loved his sweets. And so when I was at Maxwell Terrace and he was the across the street, I would cook for him sometimes and take food. So we had a very special relationship because I was a little bit older. He told me so many wonderful stories about his life and everything that happened to him in the course of his career. And of course that school was full of great people, as you know, having been there. So I got to know Janos Starker very, very well, and his daughter and I remain the best of friends this to this day. And he did, I went to his master classes all the time. I learned so much from Janos Starker. It doesn't matter if you were a violinist or a cellist, what a brilliant, brilliant mind. I mean, everybody at that school was fantastic. I was so lucky to have that opportunity. I just wish I had four years there, not just one.
Leah Roseman:
Did you consider maybe leaving the orchestra and studying more or was it-
Elaine Klimasko:
No. No. And for a few reasons, I had a very serious boyfriend at home that became my husband, and he was missing me and he came down often to visit and everything else. But no, I guess because of the age disparity with myself and the students, it was 10 years. I guess I just felt that if I did something like that, well, it wouldn't be done over Zoom or anything because they didn't have that then. But I just figured maybe that was enough and the door was always open for me to return, and I keep very active, Leah, as a violinist in helping myself to improve on a, shall I say, a weekly basis, maybe not a daily basis, but I'm forever reading and the book by Galaminian, The Art of Violin playing, that's a Bible to me. It's here in my apartment where I am now. And I just read it. It's bloody boring to read, but it makes a lot of sense if you can get past that. You have any question at all the answers in that book.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. But what did learn with Mr. Gingold in terms of, I don't know, repertoire, pedagogy?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, he had, I'll start with pedagogy because he had group classes, like master classes, whatever. And that, I guess was one a week. I went to his and I went to Janos Starker's and anything else. And it was just, I mean, there was a lot of repertoire that I was exposed to over that eight, nine months because you know, his class was large, I said 40 some students, I think. So I learned a lot more repertoire that I never had the chance to learn because I was so young when I started with the orchestra, I never went to university. So that was the first thing. He was always keen on looking at less lesser known works too. So there was, there was a little bit of that in what I did with him, for sure.
Elaine Klimasko:
I don't know. He would talk about other students to me in such a wonderful way, he would say, "Do you like so and so's playing, Elaine?" That's the way he talked. And I'd say, " oh yeah, I think he's very talented, Mr. Gingold". Then he treated me as colleagues more than a student in some ways. And then he would discuss something about that person in particular, bow arm, something that was positive, or even something that was negative, but in a positive way, he would talk about it, because he knew that my passion was teaching and that was something that I wanted to be the very best I could at. Because it's really hard to teach a good bow arm. I don't know how you feel about that, but-
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
I mean, there are so many things that come into it. I mean, when a person picks up the violin, it's just there's this rigidity because it's awkward. I mean, playing the cello is much more natural, I think, but I'm still learning.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
And thank goodness.
Leah Roseman:
So in your own teaching, do you have, it must have evolved over the years, but do you have like a system, like a progression of concertos or certain ways you structure goals for your students?
Elaine Klimasko:
Not at all. And maybe that's a mistake, but I've never done that, but I'll start by saying that with my students all being a little bit more senior, I don't really teach the Seitz concertos. They're gorgeous and I played them all, but I'm at a slightly higher level than that with the students that come to me. So what I do is, the repertoire I haven't learned, I try to learn. I have The Concerto According to Pinchas and I've studied that very carefully over the years because everybody wants to play like Pinchas and looking at his fingerings and things like that. And no, I mean, sometimes a student will come to me and I'm a little bit unusual as a teacher this way, and they'll say I really, really want to play Tchaikovsky's violin concerto. They can hardly play "Come to Jesus" in whole notes. So when I have a student like that, sometimes I'll just give them an excerpt, you know? But something that's challenging because when you get to those Gaviniès etudes and past, the Paganini Caprices and stuff, some of those things are really hard. So, Hey, I'll just, it's suffices. It makes them happy to just have learned four lines of something. And then when they're ready, we'll go on and do more.
Leah Roseman:
So like you mentioned participating in festivals a lot when you were young, so I feel like it's really changed. Not that many students enter their students in festivals, like it's kind of dried up almost, the interest in that.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, and I don't know why. I feel really saddened about that because I think that's what gave me, I mean, hopefully there was some talent there too, but I think that's what gave me the experience of performing as much as I did and my confidence in performing. I mean, Leah, I would play in Ottawa, St. Catherine's, Guelph. I mean, maybe six, Toronto was the big one and not necessarily the same repertoire at all. When I think about the repertoire that Mr. Moskalyk gave me throughout, it was phenomenal. I was a quick learner, fortunately, and fast, quick, well, I mean, it wasn't a struggle for me to do that kind of thing. And I had a little more confidence than I deserved maybe too, so I was able to learn some of those things quickly.
Elaine Klimasko:
But yeah, I don't know, it's those things have changed and I'm so sad about it because even the Kiwanis Festival here, music festival, I'm a huge advocate of it. And I always put my students into it. I mean, this has been very strange for the last two years for sure. But that's an option. You go there and you play. And I mean, I let them have some choice, but I really try to make every student play in at least four classes. And we used to have, I don't know if you had the same thing, we used to have sight reading classes too. And do they still have that here? I don't even know.
Leah Roseman:
It used to be a requirement, like if you wanted to be eligible for a trophy or had to have, but I think they got rid of that. You had to do either quick study or sight reading. I think.
Elaine Klimasko:
I think quick study was a wonderful idea that festivals incorporated, I think that's great. You know, when you have 24 hours or 48, whatever it was.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
To learn something, that's a very good experience for a student, it prepares them for the professional world. When a conductor comes in and suddenly decides to change the repertoire from whatever just to whatever, and you're scrambling because you haven't played it before.
Leah Roseman:
And you've been an adjudicator as well.
Elaine Klimasko:
I have. I love it.
Leah Roseman:
What's the experience like?
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, I just love doing that. I haven't been asked for a while. I don't know, maybe because I didn't do a good job or something, but I think the life of the festival is dying. It's my sister. Sonya's still doing, well in recent past, not maybe in the recent past, but she has done a little bit more than me, but I so enjoyed that experience and I think it's really great. Look, what we do is a very competitive world. So to have 10 kids stand up and all play the same piece, I don't think that's mean. I think it's good training, because there are always times when we have to learn something in the spur of the moment or whatever and you know, stretch your whatever, and you show that you have something special, but then that gets into very long subject matter about what happens to people when they perform, some people just clam up and I have had students like that who I've encouraged to pursue music as a hobby and as an aside, when I just see that the personality is not there. They don't have that capacity to, when I say share in their music making, I mean that with kindness, but you understand what I'm saying, it's just some people just aren't born to do that.
Leah Roseman:
I think it's unusual though, because probably the majority or a large number of your students over the years have gone on to music professionally. And do you purposely talk to them about it, the different options as they're growing up?
Elaine Klimasko:
I sure do. At last count, 35 are professional musicians now, all over the world, and I'm very proud of that number if for no other reason that I did something that, I taught them to love something as I love, as I love it, you know? And for me, happiness is a lot more than important than success and those people seem to really love what they do. So yeah, that's how I think about it.
Leah Roseman:
So I'm just curious, because it's such a competitive profession, as you're saying, it's hard to make a living and it can be very expensive, the training and all that, buying instruments. So I've never ever pushed it, and no one ever asks me, should I go into music? So I don't mention it. And my students become lawyers and doctors and hopefully some of them keep playing. I know some of them do. So I'm just curious. I've been thinking maybe I should start talking to them, like these are your possibilities if you get serious.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, I mean, I'm facing that in a very personal way right now because I have a son who was a bit of a late bloomer in terms of the cello, but he's turned into quite a wonderful young cellist, and he wants more than anything to start the audition circuit. And I mean, he's certainly good enough to play in a good orchestra. The mother in me is sort of saying, but it's not so easy. I mean, there just aren't enough jobs out there.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
So I, yes, I always say that to students. I don't know why this is, but the majority of my students are very good at lots of other things too. I'm not sure that I was at that age, but a lot of them, I mean, academically I was never like really, really strong. I think they mark easier now, I'm convinced of that, because nowadays all my students have 95%. And in my day, if you had 80%, you were in a very small minority in high school and in the seventies percent was considered a decent average in my time in high school. Not the best, but decent. So it's difficult to say, Leah. I think, I don't know about encouraging them to go on. I never ever want to squelch any dreams, but when you have a student who, you know, has achieved what they've achieved, because they've just put an inordinate amount of hard work, I do talk to them.
Elaine Klimasko:
I try to as kind as I can, but I just, I talk about the competitiveness, and I talk a lot about the disappointment and I said, you know, hard, hard work doesn't equal a great job. It should, but that's not the way it works in the music world. And I said, it's not person. It's just, to be able to produce those beautiful sounds in that moment and to sustain it. And I said, a lot of people can't do that for a variety of reasons. So most of my students end up going into music. I have to say, I don't have a lot of students, but have I ever discouraged a student from going into music? Yes. But not in a blatant way at all because I didn't want to hurt their feelings.
Elaine Klimasko:
It's happened a couple times to me where I knew they probably would not succeed, but it's much worse now than it was 10 years ago, and even worse than it was 20 years ago. So I mean, what are we to tell our students? I mean, life without music is a pretty horrible life. So I mean sometimes when students say to me, well, if I can't be a soloist, and of course most of them say they're going to be a soloist, they just believe that. And I don't squelch that dream. I just say, well, you just keep working hard and we'll see how your life unfolds. And just work hard and be a good colleague and be honest and let's see what happens.
Elaine Klimasko:
But I do say to all of my students though, if you think that playing in a symphony orchestra is secondary, that's the worst thing you could be thinking because the joy of orchestral playing, and I'm sure you feel the same way, Leah, is, there's nothing in life to me that compares with that. When you're playing one of those grand symphonies and that buildup a crescendo and you hear the horns and the French horns... I mean, I'm just covered in goosebumps. In my seventies still, and I don't know of any other profession that makes you feel that way. Maybe a doctor delivering a baby. I don't know. But it's pretty special.
Leah Roseman:
And you coached people doing auditions as well.
Elaine Klimasko:
A lot.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And what kind of advice do you find yourself giving to them over and over again?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, the first thing I say is just make sure you're bloody well prepared. I mean because, I use this analogy sometimes and it's probably a gross exaggeration, but it scares them enough to work. And I say that with all the hard work you put in, there's a possibility 50% of it will be lost when you get into the audition room. So think of it as having to get of 150% of yourself. And they kind of look at me like I'm really weird but it's true. You never know what's going to happen. There are the rare ones who come in who just feel the ease, but you know, the number of auditions I've done for the National Arts Centre Orchestra and everything else and knowing some of those people, now it's all behind a screen, but later on finding out who that person was behind the screen and everything else. And I've heard people just completely, completely fall apart in an audition. And then people say, well, how can I avoid that? I don't want to fall apart.
Elaine Klimasko:
And I just say, well, the words of advice that I got from my teachers, in Joseph Gingold and Lorand Fenyves was preparation, preparation, preparation, and they said it repeatedly. And they said, you leave no room for error. Now that means different things to different people, for sure. But you know, a person who's a quick learner and there are many of those in our orchestra, they could maybe think, well, this is good enough. But maybe they had a scare in the car on their way to the audition, these extenuating circumstances that could certainly mess things up in that moment.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I was thinking, Mr. Gingold wrote those excerpt books that were still like the standard, amazing compilations. He was a concert master, right? Before he began.
Elaine Klimasko:
Yes. Of Cleveland. Yeah. And how lucky they were.
Leah Roseman:
Did he coach excerpts though? I was curious with his students.
Elaine Klimasko:
That's a good question, Leah. I certainly didn't ever attend a class. We had regular master classes and I did not take excerpts to him because that wasn't what I was there for. But I don't think so. I seem to remember that Janos Starker did that though in Indiana, but I'll find out for you, I'm kind of curious. I don't think he did that, but who better to learn orchestral excerpts from than him?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
I mean, Mr. Gingold too, just with all those years in Cleveland Orchestra, I mean how lucky they were to have him, amazing.
Leah Roseman:
So I mentioned earlier that I'd read this book, Art and Politics and they were about when the concept of the Art Centre became, when they're developing it, they hired these different consultants. So Louis Applebaum was one of them and he said he really thought it was important that the orchestra not just be a performance, well, that the building would be connected with the schools and the universities. And it's interesting because I think it took a while for that to happen. But now that's more, like the education department's become a lot bigger and we have a lot more of that, and you've been quite involved with that. I was curious your perspective on that because I know some colleagues feel like, "no, we're performers", that's what it's about. When we go on tour, it shouldn't be so much education all the time.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, I couldn't disagree more.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
Even if you don't think that you have the innate ability to be a fine teacher, if you've got into the National Arts Centre Orchestra, you have a lot to show the world. And I mean, we all show it in different ways and some people are more personable in those kinds of sessions and some people do it better than others, but I mean, I've seen master classes with some people, I'm not going to mention any names, where I was ready to take a nap after the first three minutes, because there was just no excitement in the voice. There was no enthusiasm. And for me, that's really important when you're working with students to do that.
Elaine Klimasko:
So going back to the beginning of the orchestra at everything else, and you're right, there was not any real association with University of Ottawa at all. It was actually a very unfortunate thing, I think, because the two go hand in hand don't they?
Leah Roseman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Elaine Klimasko:
But we did have the hugely successful young artist program with Pinchas, and as you're probably aware, I taught the younger ones and those were magical days in my life. I mean, they came to that program because they saw the name Pinchas Zukerman, not because they saw the name Elaine Klimasko. So I got all the benefits of being just a musician and a violinist because I was under the umbrella of his name, but the people that came to that program and I'm so happy to say that many decades later now I am still quite close to the majority of those people. We've kept in contact. I know where many of them are now, what they're doing. I mean, the majority of them certainly did go into music, but I mean, it was the cream of the crop. I can't remember if it was all audition process. I should remember that, but I can't. I guess they did have to audition for me, and then they came, but they came from all over Canada. So I met a lot of really interesting people that I never would've met otherwise. And across the land we have fabulous teachers. Calgary is a huge musical center, as you know. A lot of very fine students come out of there for sure.
Leah Roseman:
It was a three week program, right? So it was chamber music, masterclasses, lessons.
Elaine Klimasko:
That's right. That's right. There was a huge emphasis on, it wasn't just Canadian, because I just remembered you saying that, your last comment just jogged my memory about something. There was a girl I had that came from California and this is a great story. This will relate to anybody unless they're a violinist and played the Barber violin concerto, but she came to me in tears and said, Mrs. Klimasko, she said, I just, she was a fantastic young violinist, she was 14 or 15 and she won some huge concerto competition in the states. And she came to me sobbing one day and I said, what's wrong? And she said, "Well, I just got an email saying that when I played the Barber concerto, I thought I was just going to play the first movement. I have to play the whole concerto." So she said, "How can I learn that last movement in that time?" And I said, I know exactly how to teach you to learn that last movement in time. Leah, without a word of lie, she came to me the next morning and played it for me. She stayed up all night.
Leah Roseman:
Oh.
Elaine Klimasko:
So she went da to the fourth note. Then she went da, da to the seventh note.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
And whatever. And she learned it, her name was Amy Tsi and she was a remarkable, remarkable young woman and violinist. But she did it. She did it.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. For those people that aren't violinists. So that is such a beautiful concerto. And the first movement is very lyrical and not as hard technically I would say as other concertos at that level, but I think the last movement, if I remember, the person that was dedicated to might have asked for different last movement, I might be misremembering this, and then he went and wrote this incredibly hard last movement. I should check that.
Elaine Klimasko:
I'm going to check it too because I'm interested now. But for anybody who's listening, teachers or students, if you want to your heart to soar, get the Barber violin concerto, because it's so gorgeous and it's very doable. I mean, it has a few things, but it's just one of those pieces, in my opinion, that helps you to really grow musically as a violinist. Because if you played in sort of a flat way and you don't let your heart soar with what you're doing with your hands, it's not going to be successful. But he was a Hollywood composer, was he not? And I mean, it's like a movie from Hollywood. It's pretty exciting.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. But the last, movement's just a moto perpetuo of just constant 16th notes and, yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
It doesn't stop for, how many is it? Four pages or six? I can't remember now.
Leah Roseman:
Something like that.
Elaine Klimasko:
But I sometimes just, I remember even at the YAP program, I would challenge students with that too. Just those kids were also amazing and so hard working that they love those kinds of challenges, so sometimes I would say to them, okay, let's have a masterclass on the last movement of Barber. Gosh, I miss those days. I just wish those days could come back.
Leah Roseman:
And the master classes with Pinchas, what were they like?
Elaine Klimasko:
It depended on the day. I mean, he is unquestionably one of the great musicians of this century, if not the greatest, I mean, there's only one Pinchas Zukerman, that's for sure. But he gets tired like everybody else and he gets impatient, like everybody else, once again, if somebody hasn't worked hard or whatever. I think his pairing with Patty Kopec was a brilliant one, and she's the one who taught the senior students. I taught the juniors, but they were all very senior in level, but they were younger and she's could sort of do more than nitty gritty because I don't even know if he's terribly good at it. I sat in so many of his master classes just wanting to, I don't know if I wanted to teach like him, I think more, I wanted to play like him, but he would talk about the bow arm or something, but everything was just so very natural to him that sometimes it's hard to explain. I think that's why he had Patty because she was able to put it into words. But, with him it was just, well, why can't you do this? It's easy. Back and forth.
Leah Roseman:
So we performed, he was our music director for I think about 20 years for those people who don't know. And we toured with him performing concertos all over the world. Do you have any special memories of some of those performances?
Elaine Klimasko:
Indeed. I do. Maybe it's the same as your memory. We were in Germany and in the front row he was playing Beethoven concerto and in the front row, there were two boys. When I say boys, young men. They were probably somewhere between around 20. Obviously violin players and just so excited to be so close to him in physical distance. And they had the score there, their parts, and they were sort of helping each other in anticipation of what this was going to be like and everything. And Pinchas started to play. And you and I know how he played the Beethoven violin concerto, this one boy after, oh, maybe five minutes, the score just sort of, and all the intellectual input just sort of dropped to his lap. And he just looked up at him and the tears were just streaming down his face. I'll never forget that as long as I live. He wasn't making huge sobs. It was just how Pinchas touched people, touches people with this profound musicianship.
Leah Roseman:
Was that the first tour with him or the one in around 2001?
Elaine Klimasko:
It was the one in 2000, I think. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I missed that one. I was home with our toddler.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh okay.
Leah Roseman:
N ot that tour. Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, every performance he gave was, I mean, they were always incredible. I don't ever remember a bad one, and remember he used to, he'd play an encore and he grabbed somebody's violin from the orchestra, played the encore on a violin he never even played before, such an amazing natural man with that violin under his chin, wasn't he?
Leah Roseman:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Elaine Klimasko:
But yeah, Leah, I mean, every performance with him was memorable to me, to be honest, just because, I mean, if you had to ask me just out of the blue quickly, who's your favorite violinist in the world? I would definitely say Pinchas Zukerman. I just, I'd have to. How was he born? I mean, you know the saying, his mother must have had an extremely difficult birth because he was born with the violin under his chin, and that sort of sums it up, doesn't it? That someone can have that kind of innate ability. But you know, for the students who may be listening to this podcast, I have to tell you that if you go past Pinchas' room before a performance or whatever, he's practicing scales.
Leah Roseman:
Oh yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
He's not doing the hard stuff. He's not going up and down the violin showing off, he's doing some very methodical work. It's not necessary slow, but it's preparatory work to give his best performance that he can.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
And I've often wished I could just film that or do an audio thing of it just to say to students, because who is it who told me a story once with Jascha Heifetz, I think it was Mr. Gingold who told me the story. Yes, it was Mr. Gingold, that Jascha Heifetz was coming to town and the students were just beside themselves. Oh my God, I'm going to hear Jascha Heifetz, I'm going to hear Jascha Heifetz, and two boys decided to rent a room in the hotel right next door to him thinking they were going to, they had stacks of repertoire. Well, they got there and all they heard was slow practice scales, double stops. I love that story. How true.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
The basics.
Leah Roseman:
And when our orchestra got started, I know a big part of it was having chamber music as part of what, and there were people brought in, can you speak to some of those early experiences?
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, I mean, the who's who the music world was brought in. Janos Starker came. I played chamber music with the who's who's the music world, thanks to the National Arts Centre Orchestra. What other opportunity would I have had to have done that? I mean, name the artist, whether it be Lynn Harrell or Bernard Greenhouse, or I just, the names just start coming quick, clean enough but, Rafael Durian, whoever, whoever, I mean, it was just, they all came. I met them all. And they all played with us. I mean, I didn't necessarily play in every chamber group that they played in, but they came to coach chamber groups too. Not just play in one. So why did that program die? Well, I mean, I think that'd be the most exciting orchestra in the world to be in if that program came back.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
And I mean, especially for the younger people who are still playing so much chamber music and still like sponges, learning all these things. I mean, my goodness, what we played with them, not just with the group that they coached, we played with them in the seats, in that circle. I mean, I can't tell you what that was like playing chamber music with the greats of the world and whoever devised that, was that Mario Bernardi who did? That devised that program? I don't even know.
Leah Roseman:
But there was no good acoustic space. Like where were you playing?
Elaine Klimasko:
Didn't matter, Leah.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
Didn't matter. It was the personal experience because we rehearsed in rehearsal room A and B and I mean, that's kind of echoey for sure. And it was always a disappointment when we got to the hall, there's no question because, it's dull and boring, but having said that the words of wisdom, I remember all those times just sitting there thinking that's Janos Starker playing Dvorak with me and just feeling overwhelmed and so grateful for that experience. And boy, I tell you though, there were no lazy colleagues. The ones who signed up to do those chamber programs, they worked their tails off to do the very best. Remember we only had a very short period of time to rehearse it because they just came in, I think in the last week. Am I right about that?
Leah Roseman:
I believe so. I was just at the tail end of that.
Elaine Klimasko:
But no, I mean we rehearsed in preparation for it, of course. And if it was a cello part, someone would maybe come in and cello part. But, and we did me with Anton Kuerti on piano. I remember doing works with him. I've got to look at my programs and try to remember back to some of those magnificent moments in my life. But I don't know of another orchestra in the world that ever did anything like that. I wonder if we can bring that back.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, that'll be amazing. Another thing that struck me when reading this book about the history and it makes me so grateful that we have this building and this whole experience is the Hamilton Southam had submitted the budget to the government. He knew it'd be very expensive and more than people thought. So there was a separate budget to build the garage and do the excavation and then the garage and then the building was this other budget. So then it was all these politicians wanted to make a lagoon and just fill in the hole. Did you hear that?
Elaine Klimasko:
I did not know that story.
Leah Roseman:
It would have just been a parking lot and a lagoon on top.
Elaine Klimasko:
But I have another Hamilton story to share with you that the world needs to know about. In my brazen immature way, the age of 19, I decided I wanted to go to, maybe it was 20, it doesn't matter. I wanted to go to Academia musicale Chigiana in Italy and study and Franco Gulli was the teacher there. And of course he played with us I think the year before and everything else. And I guess I could have applied for a Canada council, but maybe I didn't realize that those things were available. I'm not sure. So what happened was I, in my naive way, I went up to Mr. Southam's office and I knocked in the door and I said, may I please talk to you for a few minutes? And he said, "Anytime, Elaine, please come in." Sat down on his couch I said, the reason I'm here, because I want to know if there's anyway I can be sponsored to go Italy to study.
Elaine Klimasko:
And he said, "You want to go and further study?" And I said, yes. And he said, "You mean violin?" I said, well, yes, there's a great music there and I want to go study. And he said, "Does this have anything to do with being in Italy?" And I said, well, of course it's a great country with a lot of musical history. And he said, "Well, then I'm going to think about this." And he called me back 15 minutes later, I was downstairs. And he said, "Well, that was easy." He said, "My wife just gave birth to Henrietta Miranda Southam. So in her honor, I'm going to start a scholarship in her name and you're going to be the first recipient."
Leah Roseman:
Wow.
Elaine Klimasko:
True story. Yeah. So off I went to Italy, it was fantastic.
Leah Roseman:
For a summer or?
Elaine Klimasko:
Yeah. Well, it was four weeks for sure, maybe six. I don't recall now, it's been so long. I think it was 1970 I went something. No, it was, gosh, why can I not even remember that? But it was amazing. Giurannawas the viola teacher, Giuranna, I think I'm pronouncing that correctly. And Jane Logan went too. I had a trio then with Jane Logan and Rosalind Sartori called Trio Cennina because we all went to Italy together to study, and I was sponsored of course by Mr. Southam. So to this day, I'm incredibly grateful to him for that. I don't believe that scholarship exists anymore.
Leah Roseman:
Never heard of it. Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, if I was independently wealthy, I'd start a scholarship, because those things are really great for students nowadays. I mean, who can afford to do those kinds of things?
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
It's not attainable.
Leah Roseman:
So part of what students have to do when they're going into music is get a nice instrument and a good bow. And I'm curious, what kind of advice do you give to them for choosing or when you're trying things out?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, I have to start this answer by telling the world how very fortunate I was. I mean my father was a dentist, so we weren't poor, but you know, we were seven children, he knew diddly squat about violins. He just knew that he wanted us to play the violin. But I remember after our lessons in Toronto and I would just dread this, he'd go to High Notes in Toronto, which was a famous violin shop and he couldn't play the violin. He'd just pick it up and go ... but he just was fascinated by violin makers and everything else. So he would go there and then he'd go to, well, I can't remember what the other one was, but he would just sort of try violins. I don't know why he was trying them because he couldn't play. But I guess he was just fascinated by the idea of having great violins or whatever.
Elaine Klimasko:
And then he got in touch with someone, someone through New York, I guess. And that's how I became too able to own a Pressenda. He bought a Gagliano for my oldest sister. He didn't buy me pretty clothes and nice dolls. I never got that, but I got a beautiful violin, 1831 Pressenda. And he paid $3,500 for it in 1960, which was a hell of a lot of money then. And I have a very special bow that's a Tubbs gold mount bow that is inscribed on the frog, it says Adelini Patti Craig y Nos, and what that, Adelini Patti was a very famous singer, I believe in the 1920s, and she was married to a Count the name of his castle was Craig y Nos. So he inscribed this, the frog of the violin and I'm the proud owner of that bow. I also have a beautiful Villaume bow. I play on very, very light bows, I like to play on 58 grams. A lot of people don't understand. 57 grams, one of them. What do you play on, Leah?
Leah Roseman:
Well, actually Pinchas convinced me to get a bow that was tip heavy. And so I have a Michael Vann actually, because he had one of his bows and then Jessica did. And I absolutely love that bow, because it is very easy for sustaining because it kind of does the work for in the upper half, but it's a little harder for lighter stuff. So it's the main bow I use.
Elaine Klimasko:
Oh, I'll have to try it. That's interesting. Yeah. I want you to try mine too, because even though it feels light, it does a lot of magic.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. But back to my question. So when you're advising students, I mean, do you think they should get a bow to match the violin? You know what I mean?
Elaine Klimasko:
No, I'm not an expert on that, and I know very little about that. I of course encourage parents to buy what they can afford. And it's always a struggle because I mean, nowadays great violins, you're looking at a minimum of probably $200,000 to start. I don't know. So with students, then it's hard. I never let a student pick their violin ever. They don't get a choice. They had no experience. And, you know, because they're fascinated by the color or something fancy on the scroll or whatever. So I just sit them down and I say, look, I know you want to be part of this, but you just have to trust that I know what I'm looking for. I know how to pair the bow with the actual violin. So just let me do it. And then you'll learn more as years tick by, and then you can do this same thing for your students.
Elaine Klimasko:
I said, you can be so easily influenced by the color of the varnish, if it's something that's not important. And especially when you're looking at, I mean, nowadays students have to look at modern makers, they can't afford anything else. And there are some good modern makers out there. I'm a fan of the modern maker, Karinkanta in Argentina, trying to think of who it is. Somebody famous plays on his violins and I can't remember who it's right now. Sorry. But Pablo Salvi who's the concert master of the Buenos Aires Symphony. He plays on a number of his violins and I actually took a trip to our Argentina to buy the violin and the violin I have is actually a copy. So I paid what, $20,000 for it. So that's very affordable to, well, it's somewhat affordable to students.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
So that's the advice I give to them, but I never let them pick their own. They just don't have any experience. And I mean, we're fortunate to have wonderful places like The Sound Post. He's a very honest and knowledgeable man. And then sometimes I send them to Toronto to Heinl's and things like that. And one's who have a little more money, maybe to New York or take a look at Tarisio, whatever.
Leah Roseman:
So how has your teaching changed over the many years? Do you think?
Elaine Klimasko:
I think I'm more dedicated. I mean, with every passing year I know something more and that's not to say that I wasn't dedicated, I always loved teaching, but I learned as much through my years of teaching as my students did. And you as a fine teacher would certainly understand what I'm talking about. It's not one recipe for all those kids. Everybody's so different. And I'm a little bit strict as a teacher. They come in and they want to play, I really, really want to play this concerto. You know, sometimes I'll let them play a small excerpt, but I'll say, you know, you're not ready for that, it's going to be a struggle and you're going to end up fighting with your violin. And I said, what's the point of that? Give yourself a little bit more time and eventually it'll happen, but yeah, it's hard.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. I mean, it depends. I mean, so many, they're going to be amateurs and they dream of playing certain things before they leave high school. So to me it depends, the goal of the student.
Elaine Klimasko:
I have to say that, and I don't know if I'm proud of this or if I worry about it sometimes, but the majority of my students do choose to go into music. And I feel very well proud of that, I guess in one way that I was able to inspire them that much. But with the way the world is now with it being so very competitive, sometimes I've had parents come to me and say, what should I do here? I said, well, the bottom line is if they're 18 or 19, they have a dream and if the dream is strong enough, they're still young enough to pursue something else if things don't work out. But if you go into music and you go to a fine university and the relationships you develop through that, the people you meet, the who's who of the music world, even if it doesn't all end up being your lifestyle, it's still a wonderful, wonderful period of your life.
Elaine Klimasko:
So that's how I kind of leave it. Leah, I struggle with this every day of my life, because it's so competitive out there now. And I just worry so much. I mean, what do you have to do to win an audition? I mean, I think I know the answer to that because I know my excerpts inside out, and I sometimes think that probably my forte now I should be excerpt teacher because I just have played these things with so many conductors and played them all so many times that I really understand and know them well, intimately. It's hard. It's very hard, but I don't discourage anybody because you can't. Let them have their chance. And they may fall down, but they'll get up and they'll try again.
Elaine Klimasko:
But where I do draw the line is, and this is the hardest one for me and I'm sure you'll agree with me, every now and then you'll get a student that just works their tail off and they don't stop. They just, they have this passion and this desire to just be the very best they can, but there just isn't a lot of natural talent there. And people ask me this question all the time, how important is natural talent? Well, I think it's important. I don't think it's the most important thing. And I don't think that it has to be 100% of the people who succeed. But I think there has to be a little bit of that because in my, and this is just my own personal experiences in life, but the students who practiced the eight hours a day, who really, where it was really not a natural fit, I'm not sure that was the right thing for them to do in life.
Leah Roseman:
Hmm.
Elaine Klimasko:
It's just to take that much of your time as a human being. And I mean, you and I know people who practice all day long and we know people hardly ever practice, but I think there's a happy medium there somewhere don't you? That I think there have to be situations where you have to say now, if this is going to take me five hours to learn two lines or whatever, I don't know. I mean, I wasn't taught well how to practice through this. And that's another thing. Students don't know how to practice. I spent a lot of time teaching students how to practice. I'm just shocked at, they start at the beginning, they go to the end, then they go back to the beginning, go to the end, and they do that hundred times over. You're just wasting a lot of precious time when you could be going for a nice walk.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
So I spend a lot of my time teaching them how to practice properly too.
Leah Roseman:
Definitely. And just to end with, what do you think about, like, we need more new audiences for orchestra concerts and for classical music in general, what do you think of that going forward with our culture?
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, I think the fault lies with exposure. I think it's nothing more than that, actually. In history has sort of taught us that the concerts and beautiful concert halls, that was for the privileged few who had status in society and all that. Well, of course that's ridiculous and music is for everybody. So I think it's very, very important to have concerts with, a lot of school concerts, and a lot of concerts for students who are studying music to somehow bring them into our world a little bit more. I mean, I've been at concerts where we had brought audiences in and, you look around in that audience and you'll see that spark in a lot of faces where they never thought maybe they would enjoy, or they're chatting sort of goofing around with the kid next to them, but all of a sudden they just sit by themselves and they're really listening. So I think the classical music world has just been too isolated and it's just been for the the gifted or the rich or whatever. I mean, from the beginning of time, that's sort of the way it has been. So I think it's very important to go into schools and reach out to these kids and lots and lots of opportunities.
Leah Roseman:
So do you think people who do come to concerts, let's say professionals in their thirties or forties took music as kids?
Elaine Klimasko:
I think it's a combination. I think it's a status thing for some. I really mean that. It looks good to say, I'm going to the symphony tonight. But having said that, the people who do that initially because it's a status thing, they keep going because they it's something beautiful to do. And I had that experience down here in Sarasota, recently, where I was talking to people and I was asking that very question, about the audiences and everything, will somebody convince them to come to concert? And he said, I'm not sure I can live without this. And they became subscribers.
Leah Roseman:
When I talked to Jack Everly last year in season one, our principal pops conductor, we talked about doing stuff with movies, which I think is such a great way to get new audiences in.
Elaine Klimasko:
I agree. I think that was a fantastic idea. And I mean, music in those movies is, I love that kind of music too. Some people think that because we're classical musicians on the stage, we only love and understand Beethoven and Mozart, well nothing's farther than the truth, of course. But I love doing that stuff and the audience obviously loves it. It's something they can relate to, but it's a starting point.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Elaine Klimasko:
They start there and then, oh, well let's broaden our scope and maybe let's try this or that after that, yeah. I do worry about audiences. I think it's less, less a tradition, shall I say, than it was in years past where these things were passed from family to family, and my parents went to the symphony, so I'm going to go to the symphony. So I think we are on the right track in that a lot of us are doing great teaching and we're sending groups into schools, but I think we have to keep doing that, even if it's just one person in that school, I'm not talking about reaching out to them because we want them to start violin, to make them realize that this is something they want to be very much a part of their life, all the time, listening to music. It's something beautiful. It's peaceful, it's restful, it's inspiring. It's a lot of things. And I mean, I love being in the audience. I don't know what you, but I love being in the audience and going to concerts. I, it's always a real treat for me to do that.
Leah Roseman:
Well, thanks so much for your time today. It was really wonderful revisiting all this.
Elaine Klimasko:
Well, thank you. Thank you, Leah. It was just wonderful to spend this time with you today and I'll look forward to hearing it and all the other podcasts you're doing. So let me know the schedule.
Leah Roseman:
Okay. Thanks.
Elaine Klimasko:
Thank you. Bye-bye
Leah Roseman:
Season one of this podcast had 20 episodes and season two continues with a really interesting mix of musicians talking about their lives and careers with perspectives on overcoming challenges, finding inspiration and connection through a life so enriched with music. Please follow this podcast wherever you listen to podcasts, to be informed about each new episode.
