Gertrude “Trudy” Létourneau Transcript
Gertrude Létourneau:
They lose their short-term memory, but the long-term memory is there. And then you sing a song they recognize and then it's finally something they know, that they know. So by recognizing the song, they're recognizing a part of themselves too at the same time. So that's quite, I don't know, it's quite profound and beautiful when you see that light. And in that moment when they are singing, it's really, the song, I mean, really reaches a part of themselves that's still well.
Leah Roseman:
Hi, you're listening to Conversations with Musicians with Leah Roseman. Gertrude Létourneau, known to some as Trudy, is a flutist, pianist, singer, and a therapeutic musician. During this episode, she tells many moving stories of the residents she's worked with in her many years working at Perley Health.
During the episode, she frequently breaks into song and plays a variety of flutes, as well as paints a vivid picture of the fulfilling role she plays working with veterans. We also spoke about her mentors, Peter Wiegold, Jeffrey Gilbert, and Marie-Claire Séguin. This was an episode very much about going out of your comfort zone, connecting with your audience, and learning to slow down and enjoy every day.
Hi. Thanks, Gertrude, thanks so much for joining me.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Hello. Pleasure to be with you. Yes, thank you for having me.
Leah Roseman:
I heard you play live in a recital many years ago, and I do remember what a beautiful presentation the concert was. You seem to have a unique connection with the audience, and you brought every selection to life. And you played flute and you sang, and it was actually a very memorable concert.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, well, thank you. Thank you. I'm trying to remember which concert it was, but I really do like to mix the singing and the flute playing. And for me to talk to the audience and to engage them in the music, in the concert, I don't know. I can't do it without doing that. I have to connect with the audience and talk to them and yeah.
Leah Roseman:
But when I heard that concert, I wasn't aware of the work you do, which is four days a week at The Perley. So we're going to be talking a lot about that. And you were suggested to me by another musician, that you'd be an excellent guest.
And the more I learned about you, I thought, "Wow, this is such a beautiful fit for the series." Because I really try to highlight how deep and broad a life and music can be. And also themes of connection and how we have to be flexible and how we have to learn about ourselves and be open. All these come to fruition in your life.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Do you want to start about how you got into this work? And what it is you do there at the Perley Veterans Home?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah. Well, I never thought, when I was studying music, I never thought that I would do that. Work with seniors, that's for sure. And it's all my journey through school, through life, that brought me there. After doing my Bachelor degree and Master's degree, I did two courses on performance and communication. One in Toronto, and then I went to London, England, and there it was at the Guildhall.
It's a course called the Performance and Communication Skills. So in that course, it was a placement, and where I played, it was about making music in the community that what it was about, using improvisation. So anyway, in the placement, I was working with young adults with learning disabilities, and it really clicked. So after the year in London, I came back in Toronto and I was ready to do anything because after studying, I was broke.
And then I found a little ad in the Globe and Mail. It was a school for kids with learning disabilities. So then I worked there for nine years teaching music to them. So then when we decided, my husband and I, to move to Ottawa, I was looking for work. And he found, in those days, we found jobs in the newspaper. Anyway, so he saw that job at the Perley Rideau, at the time was called Perley Rideau Veterans Health Center. Now they call it Perley Health.
And so that was to develop music programs for seniors. So seniors, frail, elderly. So people with limitations. The same way, so it was related to the work I had done before with kids with learning disabilities, people with limitations. So I applied and because I could of course play the flute, it is my main instrument, but I was able to sing. I was able to accompany the singing on the piano. So I've been there for 22 years. So that's it. That's how it got me there, yes.
Leah Roseman:
And this program at the Guildhall, can you talk a little bit about it? I was curious to learn more.
Gertrude Létourneau:
At the beginning, the director was Peter Renshaw. And the main teacher was Peter Wiegold, who's an English composer and also very strong in improvisation and making connections between musicians through improvisation, through workshop. And he has been to Canada quite a few times. Because when I studied in Toronto, he came, he did a two-week workshop.
So that's after the two weeks, I said, "Okay, I want to go to do your course." And he said, "Well, you're in. You have seen me work for two weeks. Just find the money and you're in." So the course, the first class was actually a Tai Chi class. That was a very first. So, I can't remember, every week, I suppose there was a Tai Chi class. And then it was based on improvisation and doing workshops in the community for elderly, for kids. And I remember going in a Mental Institute.
So it was all based on that, and we had to compose, which was a big challenge for me. And it was all what was interesting and difficult for a classical musician like me. As a classical musician, we want results, we want something to be excellent, to be perfect if we can. But this course was all about the process of making music.
We even had concerts where we would show work and work in progress. And I thought, "Oh my God." I fought it to the end. And I finally understood that working at Perley, because especially working with the residents with dementia, it's all about the process. Because if you wait for the result when you're old and very old, because I work mainly with the veterans, and many of them are World War II veterans.
So life is a process because the end result is not always pleasant, and we're all going there. So that was very enlightening when I realized that, "Oh yeah, it is about the process of making music." The course was very much about that. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I've seen some of the beautiful short films you've done where it shows you interacting with the residents. And I also saw the one in French on Rogers.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, yes.
Leah Roseman:
And it brought tears to my eyes to see those men singing in French with you.
Gertrude Létourneau:
I know.
Leah Roseman:
And I was thinking, for that generation, there was so much more of a sing-along culture. There was the radio.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
Everyone knew the same songs. I don't think it'll be the same for our generation when we're their age in terms of a common repertoire. You know what I mean?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah. And also because even when I was a child, we would gather around the piano, especially of course, around Christmas time. And my mother would play the piano and we would sing together. And my aunts would come to the house, and there was this sing-along in the house in families. At church also. So you may be right. I don't know what the future will bring for that.
But this is very much a part for them to enjoy music and participate. There's a lot of sing-along and these old songs. And when a resident has dementia or forgets a lot, and they don't know where, they're looking for their wife. They're looking for their car. They don't know where they are. And then you sing a song that they know. Because I mean we've seen that before. People don't remember.
They lose their short-term memory, but the long-term memory is there. And then you sing a song they recognized, and then it's finally something they know, that they know. So by recognizing the song, they recognizing a part of themself too, at the same time. So that's quite, I don't know, it's quite profound and beautiful when you see that light. And in that moment when they are singing, it's really, the song, I mean, really reaches a part of themself that's still well.
It's a bit like I knew if someone has children, I remember when my children were young. And for example, if my son would hurt himself or did something wrong or he was crying, and then a few minutes later you hear he's playing and he starts humming or singing. Say, "Oh, he's okay. He's well. He's back to himself." So yeah, it's fantastic to see.
And it's very much at the moment, on the moment. It's in the moment, in the present. Because the past, they forget. The future well, there might be not so much future. So everything is in the present.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And you don't share a past with these people either.
Gertrude Létourneau:
No, that's true. Yeah, that's true. So yeah, I see them the way they are now. It's like when I worked in that school with kids with learning disabilities in Toronto. It's called the Kohai Educational Center, and it was a small private school. And the teachers did not tell me, they did not put labels on any kids. "Oh, this one is autistic. This one has down syndrome," or whatever.
So I was taking them the way they were that day then. And it's a bit the same. In a way, it's the same thing. Sometimes to know the diagnosis and the assessment, although of course, it's helpful in some cases. But sometimes just to take the person as he or she is right then. Yeah. Then you work with that at that moment.
Leah Roseman:
And you've learned a huge repertoire of these songs that you didn't know before, especially because English is your second language.
Gertrude Létourneau:
That's true. Yes.
Leah Roseman:
So how did you accumulate this repertoire? Would they request songs? Or were you given suggested lists? How did you research that?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, to start, I was working with another musician, and she knew a lot of repertoire. So we were as a team. So I learned a lot of songs through her. And at the time, so I started 22 years ago. And then a lot with requests, of course. A lot through requests from the residents, that's for sure.
And also, I developed playing by ear. Because at when I started, I mean a song like, Let Me Call You Sweetheart, I couldn't play that on the flute without the music. And then as the years went by, then the resident would ask me, "Well, do you know Danny Boy? Do you know this one?" And then you kind of fiddle a little bit with the flute. And then, so now I can play by ear quite a few melodies. Yeah. So that's how I learned the repertoire.
And also I learned. I started in November 2000, so it was just before Christmas. So it was a good time because a lot of French Christmas songs are the same in English for the melody, for the music. And then you go through this different seasons or events. So January, it's Robbie Burns Day. So you learn the Scottish songs. And then the love songs and the Irish songs. Songs about spring and all that. And I still do that, use themes. Every week I change the theme of the songs we sing. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So the four days a week you work there, what does your schedule look like? I'm curious.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, I start at 8:30 until 4:30. So there's a lot. In an institution like this, there's a lot of non-music tasks that you have to do, which is writing progress notes on the residents you see. There's always education videos that you have to do. We put together, well, for the past couple of years, we have put together videos instead of big concerts. But that's another.
Well, that's a great music part of it to do big concerts. Like for St. Patrick's Day, we used to be in the cafeteria and be three, four musicians together. Because we're very lucky at Perley Health, we have three music therapists and two musicians. So when we can put the concert together. So another task also, well, you have to take care. I'm the one at the moment anyway responsible for getting the, we have what, 12 pianos to be tuned.
Leah Roseman:
Wow.
Gertrude Létourneau:
So we have to book the piano tuner. And the equipment. We have a lot of equipment, microphones, and all that. So to renew the equipment, what's broke? There's a lot of other tasks to do.
And all also the communication with the residents and with the family and the volunteers. So, you walk down the hall and then you see family members. So there's a lot of, it's very social, very social job. Yeah. So the schedule, I would do, for example, my morning, I would do some one-to-one visits, music visit, musical visit. And in the afternoon, usually I will do a group. So I gather the residents, and then we sing together. I play my flute, we talk about the songs, and that sort of thing.
Leah Roseman:
So the music therapists have different kind of training, but is what they do so different than what you're doing?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, I've been doing more and more therapeutic interventions through the years. At first, I was doing more group sessions. They are certified. They fall under the umbrella of the psychotherapist. So it's quite extensive, their training and their certification and all that.
The job is similar. I guess they are more maybe goal oriented. For example, if you have someone who has aphasia and has problem with speaking, in that case, well, they will work on a one-to-one and specific songs to make that person, and they're going to work on that. So it's maybe a bit more deeply therapeutic.
My goal is always, I used to say it was to bring joy, but I rephrase that. And the music is a tool to reach them where they're well, and to let the joy out. So it's about the joy of the music. Well, sometimes, I mean, the music would of course bring tears. But when you can release that sadness after that, I feel that there's more room for the joy.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. You had told a story in this other interview about the song, Lili Marlene.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And the request you got.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Could you share that?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah. Lili Marlene, that's the one that goes like this. For those who don't know it. It's a song that was composed, the poem first was composed by a German soldier during the First World War, and it became a song during the Second World War.
And it became a song that was well, first in German, but that was translated to English and to French, also. Maybe other languages that I don't know. So it goes like this.
(singing)Underneath the lantern, by the barrack gate. Darling, I remember the way you used to wait. Was there that you whispered tenderly that you loved me. You'd always be my Lili of the lamplight. My own Lili Marlene.
So we sang that with the group, a group of veterans. And then one veteran said, "I know it in German. Would that be okay if I sing it in German?" Because he did not want to offend any other veterans because they fought the Germans. So I asked the group, I said, "Is it okay if he sings in German?" So they all said, "Yes, yes, yes." So we started in German. I will not sing it in German because I don't know it.
So we sang the whole thing in German. Then he burst into tears. I mean, when, you see a, I don't know, 94-year-old World War II veterans, just bawling. He was just crying. And then he was saying, he said, "They were kids too, like us. And on their belt, it was written something like, God, be with us. Something like that."
So it was the guilt of having to kill, to kill. And they were kids. And it was just so ... anyway, I'm still moved by that. And it's been starting 20 years ago. And then, so after that, then that's when we right away we share with the team, the care team. So then that, there's a follow-up with that.
But he had never said that to anybody to share that guilt. He had never shared that with his family, his wife. So the song brought all that sorrow and that guilt out. But I believe that it's good release for more joy after. I hope so. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And 75 odd years later, there's still PTSD that people suffer from.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And you had told me a story when we spoke before about a certain painting.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, yes, yes. There's a resident, he, again, World War II, Navy veteran. He loved the flute, he loved the flute. So every Friday morning I would go with my flute and I would play Beautiful Dreamer. That was his favorite song.
Et cetera, et cetera. And so that morning he would see me and he recognized me. I would come. "Did you bring your flute?" And I would play. That was his favorite song. One morning I arrived and he went (inhale with gesture). He did not want me to come at all. And I said, "Well," I said, "I brought my flute." "No, no, no, no, no. They're here." He was there looking around and, "They're here."
I said, "I don't know." I said, "Who's here?" "They're here and they're watching us." And I said, "Are you sure?" He said, "Yes, I'm sure." "Okay." What do I know? Maybe they are here. I don't know. So, you agree. Of course, you agree. And anyway, "They're here and they're watching us." And then I said, "I'm really tired. Can I just sit down for a minute?" I wanted a way in. I wanted to know what was going on.
So he agreed. "Okay." So I sat down and I thought, "Okay, I'm in." Then he was going on about that, "They're here. And when they come here, they have to follow our laws and they're watching us." And he was looking at the painting on the wall, because at Perley Health, we have a great creative arts studio where the residents do paintings. So it was a beautiful painting made by resident.
And I could see it was the ocean and beautiful sky with pink in it, and the shore with little lights. So I looked at the painting and I said, "Well, it's beautiful, it's the ocean." He said, "No, it's a lake. It's a German lake." I said, "Oh, I see. And they're watching us." So on the painting, the little bright dots you saw, it was the Germans. "Oh, they're watching us." So I said, "Okay."
So then it went. The conversation was always about that they're watching us. If they come to Canada, they have to follow our laws. So I agree with him, "Yes, people come to Canada, they have to follow our laws." I said, "Oh, anyway." So then I saw, it was just before Canada Day that year. And I saw in the corner by the window, there was a little Canadian flag. So I said, I'll call him Jim. Okay? And so I said, "Jim," I said, "I have a song that I think you will like. If you don't like it, I'll stop right away. Okay?" So he agreed. So I open my flute case, put my flute together, and I played this. (music)
So I played the whole, he let me play the whole, Oh Canada. When we finished, he looked at me and his eyes were watery. And he said, "That was beautiful." I just wanted to cry. I mean, it was just so amazing. So anyway, and I said, "Yes." I said, "Oh Canada, it is beautiful." Then I said, "Oh, I have another one you might like." So then I played Springtime in the Rockies, and this one.
So I played the several songs and I ended up with the Sailor's Hornpipe because he was in the Navy. And then that was it. He was out of that crisis. And then as I was walking out, the psycho-geriatric nurse was coming and I told her the story. And so she said, "Oh, I got to see that." So she came. So she said, "Oh, Jim, so what do you think of that painting?" He said, "Well, I don't know. Not much." So it was gone. So we changed a painting that day.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Gertrude Létourneau:
So it was quite a powerful moment.
Leah Roseman:
So most of the songs you sing with them are English, but there's some Francophone residents.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And there was one that came up. Oh yeah. "J'attendrai ton retour".
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh yes. I forgot about that. That's true. We had a veteran who, he was a politician and he could not talk any more because of his dementia. Couldn't talk. But he would stand with a hand on the desk or something and he would start and say, "Tut tut tut tut tut tut. That's all he could say. Quite convincingly.
And then if I would go at the piano and I would sing. (singing song "J'attendrai ton retour"). He would start to sing with the words. And we've seen that more than once, that people who can't speak anymore, but they can sing. So yeah, the music can be quite powerful.
Leah Roseman:
Do you remember that song enough to share the whole song with us?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh sure.
Leah Roseman:
It's so pretty.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Sure. (singing J'attendrai). The song, by the way, means I will wait for you night and day. And it's often the song that when I sing that in the concert, or I think about the spouse of the veterans who stayed here. And still now when you have your loved one that going abroad. So that's what it says. j'attendrai, I will wait for you night and day. (singing).
Leah Roseman:
Beautiful. Thank you so much.
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This might be an interesting time to talk about some of the vocal challenges you set yourself, because you really started singing at The Perley. It wasn't like you studied as a singer before.
Gertrude Létourneau:
That's right.
Leah Roseman:
But then you took some wonderful workshops with Marie-Claire Séguin.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes, that's true. That's true.
Leah Roseman:
To prepare for something.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes. Well, at first, my colleagues of the time, and still now, I mean my colleagues, some of them are trained singers. So I always felt very humble about singing. And then we did a CD together of songs for kind of sing-along songs. And I thought, "Oh, you girls, you do it." They said, "No, no, no, you sing too, Trudy." They call me Trudy at The Perley.
So anyway, got to sing. And I wanted to have some validation as a singer. I think that's what I was looking for. So I went to a first workshop Marie-Claire Séguin, a three-day workshop. And a couple of years later I went to Gaspésie. She teaches. Marie-Claire Séguin is a very famous singer from Quebec in the '70s with her twin brother, Richard Séguin. They were all part of that movement in the '70s in Quebec, singing about the Earth and singing with long hair and peace. And anyway, so I knew her from when I was a teenager.
But anyway, she was teaching this workshop that she calls them "La chanson, un rencontre avec soi". So the song is a meeting with yourself. And so after the week-long workshop in Gaspésie, one of the participants, he said, "You should enter a competition in Montreal. It's called "Ma première Place des Arts." So in Montreal, Place des Arts is the big concert hall. And "ma première", so my first time at the Place des Arts, that's what it was called it.
And I thought, "Well, I don't know." But the competition was to promote the new Francophone songs, French songs. So anyway, I entered in 2016 and I learned new song, new repertoire. And I went up to, I was in the quarter-final, and I did it again the following year. And I made it in the finals.
And the most valuable thing about that competition was the training that I did with Marie-Claire Séguin. Because I went to her privately also. And it's very interesting, the work you do with the songs. She was not teaching vocal technique. It was not about the voice, but really about the meaning of the songs. And it was fascinating to see how, like with other participants as well, when she worked on the meaning of the song, then the voice was much better. Without saying, "Use your head voice. Your chest voice. Or do this or that." Just by the meaning of the songs.
And also, it was quite a work, a meeting with yourself, because why do you choose such and such a song? Where does that take you? And it takes you to deep and you have lots of emotions. Because I remember at the time, I would choose songs that were related to death a lot somehow. Because with the veterans, we lose, I mean, a third of the population at Perley Health die every year.
So there's 450 residents, A third is 150, times 20. That's a lot of death. So it was really, really profound work with her. And then by singing and by that training, my singing improved. And now I'm happy to have the singing as part of my performances. But also a challenge about singing is that you don't have an instrument to hide behind. And that's hard. It's just you.
That's what also, it helps me a lot when ... You were talking at the beginning, performance, where I engage the audience as much as possible, to build a bridge with the audience. And to be able to sing without an instrument and to present. It helps you to be able to talk and just present yourself. Which I find that some musicians that are excellent with instruments, but then they're terrified about the idea of speaking to the audience.
Leah Roseman:
But myself, when I first, the only context I've had for that are infrequent chamber music concerts, because I mostly play in orchestra. But when I would do it, I did feel I was very nervous to talk, but it got better. And then I felt more connection with the audience. And it helped my nerves, actually.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
Because it wasn't them and me. It was we were all in it together.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes. And it helps the music. And I'll give you an example. Recently I did a concert with a fabulous pianist, Catherine Donkin. And we did a concert called "A la rencontre de Pan et Syrinx". So when the God Pan Meets Syrinx.
So in the program, we had the prelude of the afternoon of the fawn. I played Syrinx, she played Debussy. We played the piece, it was "La flûte de Pan". So repertoire that's not. Well the Prélude de l'après-midi d'une faune is more known. But the flute and piano repertoire that we like to play, the French repertoire from the turn of the 20th century, it's not necessarily well known like Mozart would be or Bach.
So anyway, one of the women in the audience, she came to me after the concert and she said, "you know when I saw your program," she said, "I thought it would be long and boring. I don't really like Debussy. It's so modern, it doesn't have a melody." But she said, "The way you presented it ..."
Because then we had the whole story of God Pan chasing Syrinx. She didn't want have anything to do with him. And we brought the whole thing in the story and a piece that had three movement that lasted 15 minutes. Well, we stopped between each one. And it was a descriptive piece at the end of La flûte de Pan. So we had fun together finding in the descriptive music, you would have (singing), that sounds like the water. And at some point the wolf was coming because it was about the sheep.
So we share that with the audience , they were laughing. And then that woman, she told me that it made her appreciate Debussy. I thought that was the best compliment that she could give me. So to work on that, on talking in the audience, to engage them, to build bridges, to take, to receive what they give you. It makes a whole difference in your concert. And I'm saying you receive, because sometimes or often, I don't know, we have a hard time receiving in the sense of getting on stage, receive the audience, the applause. We kind of bow and we go hide with our instruments.
And even recently, I was playing with, I was being an MC and singing a bit with the chamber music group. And one of the members at the end of the concert, she said, "Oh, you're so good at being the MC and talking now." And instead, me who is talking about the importance of receiving, instead of saying, "Oh, thank you, that's really nice of you." I said, "Oh, well I do that every day." Yeah, I did not receive what she was telling me.
And the work at Perley Health is a lot about receiving. Because we as a musician, we want to give, we are giving, we're giving. But the music is a tool for relationship. So you have to accept, it's building bridges for the audience. So you have to accept, yes, you build a part of the bridge, but you have to let them build their part of the bridge too.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. In terms of mentors, I wanted to talk about, let me get this right name. Jeffrey Gilbert, I was reading up on him.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
So interesting.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
And he had described his tenet of his teaching was compassion.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh. I mean, he was fantastic. He brought my flute level way up there. I did that. I went six months with him and he was in Florida. So Jeffrey Gilbert, he a British flute player. And he was at the time when the orchestra that they change from the wooden flute to the silver flute. And he's actually, he's one of James Galway's teachers.
So anyway, Jeffrey Gilbert. So I spent six months, he was teaching in Florida. We had students from all over the world. So we would have one master class a week, and then we would practice like crazy, enough to get tendonitis and all these problems. But the first, oh, quite a few weeks, I was playing the same two, three bars of the Mozart concerto, all the time.
And he was making, until I got it right, the sound right, and all that. He was so good, so good. And then if you worked hard, he was excellent in really bringing you to another level. And so British, it was great. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So he was very demanding. But you didn't feel like put down.
Gertrude Létourneau:
No, never. That's that. Yeah, never. He was demanding. But I mean, I've seen other teachers putting, you must have too.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Who put down. I mean, I saw a teacher in the masterclass who took the flute of the student, put it on the piano. He said, "Kneel. Okay, put your hands together. The only thing you have to do now is pray." I mean, that's horrible. That's horrible. No, Jeffrey Gilbert was so gentleman, a true gentleman. Really, really kind. And very generous, but demanding for sure. Yes, yes, yes.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. When I was reading about the flute history saying, the wooden flute was still used in British orchestras, but also no vibrato. And then it talked about Marcel Moyse.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And another one of my guests, actually, Christopher Mallard, the former principal bassoon player here.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
He studied with Marcel Moyse. He was one of his mentors.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, wow.
Leah Roseman:
So we talked about him in that conversation that I had with him.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
If people are interested. Yeah, it's who I guess started that whole French flute playing tradition. And also, I was curious in terms of your training, because you weren't a serious flute player as a child or teenager like it-
Gertrude Létourneau:
No.
Leah Roseman:
You kind of fell into it, right?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, my mother played the piano, so we were very exposed to the music, of course. And she became organist in my hometown of Saint-Césaire in Quebec, that's on south shore of Montreal.
And I remember as a teenager with my sisters, one of my sisters, I remember she taught me the chords. So we would have the lyrics of the song and I just learned the chords. I don't know what. So if we sing, I don't know, you are my sunshine, (singing). And the chord G. The chord. And then with time. So that's what we did. And we used popular songs at the time in Quebec and all that, and play chords and sing. So that was my first.
And I would play recorder. I played recorder in high school. And then in high school when we had a new high school, and then they had flutes. And I've always loved the sound of the flute. So I started to flute. And then when I got into CEGEP in Quebec, before going to university, I actually went into business administration and I had a band on the side.
And after my second year in CEGEP, I started not to like it. And I was thinking that, "Oh, the boys were their little briefcase and their newspaper." I don't know, I thought it was fake. I didn't feel I was fitting in. And then the friend of mine who was in my band, she said to me, she said, "Why don't you go into music?" I said, "Ha ha, I'm not good enough." Anyway, I was 17 and I took a year of flute lessons.
And then when I applied at university, I applied in business administration and law school and music. And then I thought if the music doesn't work, I had a backup plan. So anyway, I ended up being accepted in all three. And so I thought, "Well, I'm going to go into music." And then I remember my father saying, "You're accepted in law school and you're going into music." And then I thought, "Well, I'm 17. If I am 40 and music doesn't work and I can always go back and study law or administration, but the opposite is much harder of course." So anyway, my dad said, "Well, if it makes you happy." And they bought me a flute. Yeah. And I haven't turned back.
So then I applied at Ottawa University, Ottawa U, University of Ottawa. And because then I didn't have to redo my CEGEP, I could do a Bachelor degree in four years instead of three in Quebec. So yeah, that's how. So then from one thing to another and going to Domaine Forget and doing master classes, then my level improved. And I ended up doing a Master's after Jeffrey Gilbert. Then I did a Master's in performance at the Université de Montréal.
Leah Roseman:
And was your goal at that time to try to secure an orchestra position?
Gertrude Létourneau:
I don't think so, really. I don't think so. I've done a little bit of orchestra Toronto, like I did some shows. I was in Phantom, I did some subbing in Phantom and Showboat, and I did a bit at Ottawa U. But it makes me so nervous to play in an orchestra. So I prefer to be alone on stage and have 300 people in front of me.
And then, I don't know, I guess maybe, I don't know if I feel too remote from the audience. And you have to be so precise in the orchestra. Always made me very nervous. So I knew that I didn't ... I remember when I was doing my masters in Montreal, I was looking at what other flute players were doing. They would study in France, in Conservatatoire de Paris. Then would come back to Montreal, then try to gig and try to ...
And I remember not wanting to do that. And I didn't know what I wanted. So then when that course in Toronto came, it was the music performance. And then when the course in the Guildhall, that was my path without knowing in advance what I wanted. And that led me to Perley Health.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. And I'd heard you say, again in another interview, that before there were computers, the list you're given of the participants was like typewritten. And then if someone died, you'd have to white out the name. I found that so touching.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah we would. Actually, we had the blank page. We would write the name by hand. They knew the residents that we have. And then when they pass away, and I remember first time I did the white, you put the white out on the name of the resident. And I thought, "I wonder when they're going to put white out on my name." Yeah.
That's hard. That's hard when they pass away. That's the hard part of the job. And one time, brings me to a story, actually. Earlier I was talking about the receiving. One of the residents who, he was a very active in my music group when it was, they call it Music with Trudy. So he would refuse to go to his dental appointment because, "No, no, it's Music with Trudy." And he would suggest songs.
I remember he suggested this one. Darktown Strutters' Ball. (singing) I'll be there to get you in taxi, honey. Better be ready about a half past 8:00. Now dearie, don't be late. I want to be there when the band starts playing.
So he taught me that song anyway. And then there came a time that he was dying. He was. And so I went to see him and to say goodbye. I'm going to try to say( that story without crying. Anyway. And then as I came out of the room, I was walking down the hall, and then other resident, I'll call him Kevin, he saw me. He was sitting on his bed and he saw me. And he said, "Trudy." He said, "Trudy." He said, "What's wrong?" Because I was there crying. So I said, "Well," I said, whatever name, "Jack is dying." And so I sat beside him and I was crying.
And then he took my hand and he started to sing. (singing)You'll never know just how much I love you. You'll never know just how much I care. And if I tried, I still couldn't hide my love for you. You want to know for haven't I told you so, a million or more times.You went away. And my heart went with you. I speak your name in my every prayer. If there is some other way to prove that I love you, I swear I don't know how. You never know if you don't know now.
He sang that to me, holding my hand. I mean, I was just raw. So anyway, I said, "Thank you." And what was interesting is that he didn't try to console me to say it's okay, and what. He just sang to me the way I would sing to somebody.
And then a couple of days later, I went to see that same Kevin who had sang to me, and he wasn't in his bed and all curled up in a fetal position. And I saw the nurse and I said, "How's Kevin today?" "Oh," she said, "Don't go see him. He's very depressed. He won't go to your music."
Well, I thought I'm going to go anyway. So I went to see. So I sat beside his bed and I said, "Kevin." He said, "What?" "I just want to say thank you." He said, "Thank you for what?" "Well," I said, "Two days ago I was very sad and you sang to me." So I started. (singing)You'll never know just how ... So I sang to him. So then he smiled, then he opened up, and then we talked for 30 minutes. And then he came to the music room. So-
Leah Roseman:
Oh, wow.
Gertrude Létourneau:
I know, I know. So anyway, so yes. So we receive a lot. We give, but we receive a lot in that job, that's for sure. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I'm curious that you've made the choice not to teach because you are such a gifted communicator and so generous.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, it's-
Leah Roseman:
Just haven't had the need, or?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Well, I taught a little bit, but because I was teaching a group setting in Toronto.
Leah Roseman:
Right in the school, I meant privately.
Gertrude Létourneau:
And then probably when I came to Ottawa, I taught in the Montessori School for a year. But that didn't work out. And then that Perley job came and being four days a week there. So I did not need financially to teach, because with four days, and it leaves me some time to do other concerts and all that.
And how can I put it? I'm not a flute person, a flute player. I feel I'm more musician than all the technicality of the flute and the repertoire and some flute. I mean, it's all good. I'm not judging, it's just not me. Some flute players, they like to change flutes and change the head joint and they shop. And for me, I just didn't have the time, really. I was asked and I just didn't have the time because of what I was doing already. So it's something I never developed.
Leah Roseman:
So I noticed when we've been talking, I've mentioned things and things have come to you and you've spontaneously just, these songs are in there. Do you have set lists in your daily concerts with the residents? Or is it very spontaneous?
Gertrude Létourneau:
It is both. Mostly I will have a theme every week.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Gertrude Létourneau:
So different. It could be, I don't know, songs about being happy. So happy days are here again. Or the Happy Wanderers. Could be about happy. It could be with the, and I have different flutes for when it's Robbie Burns Day in January, I would play the Skye Boat song, this one here.(flute music) Or if sometimes I use percussion instrument and then they could play with me. (flute music)And jigs and reels and that sort of thing.
Themes, oh my God, I have theme in the spring, I will do a theme about trees and blossoms or flowers. Or sometimes the songs of Gershwin. Or I try to change the theme every week. There's of course, Remembrance Day, the war song. Songs about the fall, the colors. I love to do that theme about traveling. Let's travel, let's go different cities. So we do go to Paris. (singing)
Or we go to San Francisco.(singing) I left my heart in San Francisco. So we travel. We talk about where we've been and the places we've liked. Yeah. And sometimes the theme comes from them too. Sometimes I ask them, "What do you want to sing about?" And sometimes also it is spontaneous. Yeah, sometimes it's spontaneous. Start get them awake a bit. You start with (singing) grab your coat and get your hat, leave your worries on the doorstep. Just direct your feet to the sunny side of the street.
Leah Roseman:
And how did the pandemic affect? I can't imagine singing in a mask, I guess you must have. Or do you still do that?
Gertrude Létourneau:
That was hard for everybody. Yeah. Especially for our residents. At first, the first six months was very difficult because yes, we have the mask, and we had the shield, and we had the gown. And there's some days I didn't play music at all because I had to help with the feeding of the residents.
We did a lot of FaceTime, Skype connection, video calls with the family. So that was hard. And I would, singing with the mask is really not good at all. So I really had to pace myself not to sing too much, take breaks and all that. And I would not do groups anyway. It was all one-to-ones. So I would go with my ukulele and sing in rooms one-to-ones.
So we did quite a bit of that. Or sometimes with the pandemic, it brought the iPads. We didn't have iPads before. So with the iPads, at least you can put the music on the iPad with the speaker and you can talk about the music. Not necessarily you making the music.
But after six months, actually that summer, yeah, the summer 2020, because we have closed courtyards, I was allowed to play my flute outside, away from the residents, far away from the residents. So then with the flute, because of there's four walls, there's a nice reverb. So I did that.
And then the January after that, they made, they built, one of my colleagues, he build a shield to put in front of the piano. So then, which I'm still using, so I can take the mask off because we still have masks. So I take the mask off. And so then with the microphone, my speaker, then I can sing. Yeah. But this was for the residents. It was so very sad. Very, very sad to see. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Did you see a lot of deterioration in people because of the isolation?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah, some people died of isolation, I think. Or heartbroken more than the COVID itself. But I mean, I don't have numbers, but I would think so, yeah. But anyway, we are moving ahead.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, we are. And you had done, before we started recording, you mentioned you'd done one of those concerts. So for people who aren't in our country or province, there's a organization called Concerts and Care, which is really great. I've done stuff for them, both live and online.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And you said you were playing for 100s of homes, not just residents.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes. I mean, maybe not 100s, but I do, beside Perley Health, I do play in retirement residence. And I do less long-term care now, but with Concerts and Care, it's a great organization. But also on my own, I do that as well.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah.
Gertrude Létourneau:
So it's great because I already have all the repertoire and they're not used to hearing all the flutes because I bring all my flutes, and so that's that, and the ukulele also. So yeah, I do that quite a bit, which I enjoy very much. Because then I go and I just play the music at Perley Health. That's part of my job is to actually, I have to bring the residents. To go get them in their room or in the dining room and gather.
So all that time, and then you have to take them back. And then somebody needs a tissue, somebody needs a sweater. There's all that caring that I can say nursing part of the job. That is part of the job, and which also helps us knowing the residents. Yes. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. But I meant like to do those online concerts.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, online.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, because that's what I meant. You're reaching so many people. It's interesting when I've done it, because especially during a lockdown, it's amazing. You can actually connect with people this way.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes.
Leah Roseman:
But they're usually on mute, unless it's a discussion time. So it's like this silence.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. It's weird.
Gertrude Létourneau:
It's weird. It's hard. But you get used to it in the sense that ... It's like, I've done a few concerts with the Music Performance Trust Fund of the Music Association. And at first, it is weird, but you imagine yours. So you look at the camera and you imagine that you're on TV.
And what's a bit strange is the silence after you play and you have the silence, and to feel comfortable with that and not awkward. It's like you have to get used to it and feel okay just being you and being there with the camera. Yeah. But it was a great tool. It allowed us to do more. To do concerts, even if we couldn't do them live.
Leah Roseman:
So coming face to face with death and end of life every day, many times a week, it changes your perspective. You value your time more, I imagine.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah, because you never know. I've said that in an interview. You never knew who's going to be there tomorrow. So time is of the essence in the sense that for them. And that's what's great with technology, with the iPad now. Before, someone would ask me a song for a song, and I would have to go to the computer, look for it, learn it, find a lyric.
Now it's like, "Oh, I don't know." Oh, I went the other day, I went to see this. There's a French Canadian from Quebec resident, and we don't speak French together. We speak Québecois. So he sees me and he says, "Allo ma pitoune!" I hadn't heard that in so long. It's like a, I don't know what you call it, endearing word. My little one, ma pitoune. Then he started to sing. And I thought, what is this song?
So right away with the iPad, find La pitoune chanson, it was a song by La Bolduc. La Bolduc was the first French Canadian singer-songwriter in the, I don't know what years, was in the '30s probably, that she was very popular. And so these kind of songs that I can't remember La pitoune, but she would sing songs like La Bastringue (singing)
That kind of song. So having the iPad, right away, we were able to see that, to hear that, to connect, to have fun. Because the day after, I don't know if he's going to be there. I think so, because he's pretty good. But, well, it happened to me that one time I went to see a resident was end of life, and I knew he loved opera. So I brought the iPad and a speaker and put Maria Callas singing some arias. And he was able to say that, yes, that he liked it and all that.
And the day after I thought, "Well, I'll go back." And again. And I was waiting for the nurse to come out of the room to go, because she was giving him medication. I was chatting with another resident. So she came out, I finished a conversation, then I went in to see him with my iPad. And when I looked at him, I thought, "Oh my God, he changed so much since yesterday."
Well, in that five minutes he had passed away, so it's like, "Oh my gosh." So it's good that I went the day before. I brought him a bit of music before. So, but that, I mean, I'm smiling, but that's hard, but for sure it's hard. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
And there was a resident who was a professional sax player, jazz musician.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes, yes. And yes, actually, yes. He was a professional saxophone, well-known in the Ottawa community. And he had some dementia, and he hadn't been playing because he was, I think 94. He hadn't been playing the saxophone. He was an arranger, composer, and conductor of bands, and very well known. And he hadn't played for a number of years, but he had his saxophone.
And when I asked him to play on it, there was no way he was going to play. And so I had his saxophone fixed up because there was some leaks and stuff. So I had it fixed up. And then I had a couple of his friends come and he would refuse to play. So one day, instead of talking and asking him, I wet the reed of the saxophone, I got the sax all ready. His friend, trombone player was there too. And I just put the sax on his lap with the strap around his neck.
And then I went to the piano and I went, (singing) blue moon, you saw me standing alone. He started to play because that's what you do. The piano start, the trombone start, I play. So then after that, I invited four or five of his buddies from the old days. They came to the courtyard, it was in the summer in July. And we arranged that with family, and then we had his saxophone.
And the morning, that afternoon, the musicians were ready, "Okay, we going to go get him." He didn't want to come out of his room. So his daughter says, "Listen, Dad, Trudy arrange your buddies to be there. You're going to come out of the room." So anyway, he came and he played with them, and we had a group of resident audience, and it was fantastic.
And then that was his last gig, so that was July, and he passed away that September. So it's fantastic. It's really great to be able to facilitate that. And for the family also and the friends, to see him the way he is really, deep down. The real him, the musician. So that was a good one. That was really nice. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
So what kind of lessons do you find you learn from the residents?
Gertrude Létourneau:
The first thing that comes to mind is to slow down. To slow down and take the time too. Because when I started, I was used to doing concerts for children and all that. So I would be in a rush to start and all that. But to take the time to be seen by the residents, take the time for them to realize that they are seen also.
Take the time to be heard, take the time to hear them. Yes. That's take the time. And I'm going back to receive. And in the sense that they give us a lot. We have to give them the time to build their part of the bridge, because if you go all in 100%, you don't allow them to come towards you and to come.
I mean, how important relationships, building relationships with people and how music is the tool. It's a great tool to connect with people and with these people. And life is short, as we say. And it's true. You never knew who's going to be there the day after.
And I mean, with the veterans, they served us. They gave us freedom. And it's something that I never realized. In my family there was nobody in the military. And they gave us our freedom. We owe them a lot. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
I'm circling back to something I actually heard you talk about in another context, that I found quite inspiring. That you had said, "The people we surround ourselves with in life, they don't have to have our passions, but if they have their own passions, they can inspire us."
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes, I've said that. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's true. That's true. Yeah. I love being with people that have different passions. Sometimes you meet nephews and nieces that you don't see often. And then when they express their passion being, I don't know, flying, traveling, or repairing things. Or, I don't know, whatever passion it is. Yeah. Because it brings back my passion. And yeah, I forgot I had said that.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. It reminded me, I was listening to a podcast recently, and they were talking about the benefits of being a, I don't know if they used the expression nerd, but basically even a fan of a certain star or whatever. Things I wouldn't have thought would be so beneficial psychologically, but they really are, because anything that you're really interested in, it brings you so much.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, I see. Yeah. Well, I'm interested at the now, after so many years in my career, doing what I'm doing, what I'm very interested in is to serve the audience. Serve the seniors by teaching others to serve them.
So for musicians, for example, to teach them how to transfer their musical skills into communication skills. To bring music to more audience.s And for them to be better well-rounded musicians as well by doing that. So I'm working on that at the moment with developing workshops for musicians to do that. And coaching. So that's kind of my new passion in a way. Yeah.
Leah Roseman:
It's so needed and wonderful. Are you going to have an online model as well as in person? Or?
Gertrude Létourneau:
That's the goal, for sure. I'm starting by developing the in person, but actually there's some interest in online as well. So this might be developing quite quickly. I hope to reach more people in that sense. And also as the population, we say the population is aging, so there'll be more and more needs for musicians to be out there playing for seniors. And as performing performance with the two years we've been through the performance live and the concerts, it's hard to rebuild that. So there's a lot of possibilities playing for seniors, and that helps.
It's interesting. A number of years ago, I sent a recording of my flute playing to a CBC producer who knew me as a singer. And when she listened to my recording, and she said, just by listening to me playing the flute, not saying a word, she said, "You're a very engaging flute player." I thought that was interesting.
And my husband was telling me also that since I work at Perley Health, that how my playing got better. So I really believe that if musicians do more of this, of engaging the audience. And learn to present themself as them, along with being a musician. But if they learn to trust, as I say, I want to help musicians trust their own authenticity so they can build bridges with others.
Leah Roseman:
Well, did you want to leave us with any music?
Gertrude Létourneau:
I could do that. Oh, well, there's a song I was thinking about. I say that to receive what the residents give us, sometimes it's okay to say no. I'm saying that because one time I was singing this song, it's called, I Can't Give You Anything But Love Baby.(singing) That's the only thing I have plenty of, baby. Dream a while, scheme a while. You're sure to find happiness and then I guess all those things you've always fight for. Gee, I'd like to see you looking swell, baby. Diamond bracelets worth doesn't sell, baby. Until that lucky day, you know darn well, oh, baby, I can't give you anything but love.
So I was singing that with a group of veterans and I wanted them to sing more. So I said that to this resident. I said, "Come on." I said, "Come on, Hector." I wanted them to go "baby". So I said, "Come on, Hector." I said, "Give me a baby." He said, "Anytime, girl."
So I went (sound effect). And as I was saying it, I just wanted to take it back, but it's too late. So sometimes we just, we say thank you, but no. And something maybe to end with music, something I play also, I use my piccolo. And repertoire that they really like is of course the fiddle tunes. Like this one here, St. Anne's Reel (flute playing)
So that's my fiddle.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, that's great.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yeah. So that's what I do.
Leah Roseman:
That's just so wonderful, Gertrude. Are there a couple of songs that over the years you just always keep in your repertoire because you love them so much?
Gertrude Létourneau:
Yes. Then you see my little Ginger there can come and visit.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah. So cute.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Okay, go. Repertoire, what? Yeah, a song that I, one of the first songs that I learned at Perley Health with the Veterans, it's this one. It's called, Let Me Call You Sweetheart. And I love that word, sweetheart. We don't have the equivalent in French, "coeur sucré" doesn't work. I don't know.
It goes like this.(singing) Let me call you sweetheart. I'm in love with you. Let me hear you whisper that you love me too. Keep your love light glowing in your heart, eyes to true. Let me call you sweetheart, I'm in love with you.
One thing also at Perley Health that made me stay there, it's always changing. There's always new songs to learn. There's always new challenges. My most recent challenge is that one of our residents, he's a great writer. He writes poems and stories, but poems. And one day he asked me to put music to his poems, and I'm not a composer.
But then working with him and I would start, I would ask him, "Okay, what's the feeling to it? Okay, a jazz ballad?" Or I'm thinking of, he was thinking at some point to 2001 Odyssey for another song or whatever. So then I would start with chords (piano music) and, "Well, okay, is that what you feeling? Okay."
And then with the words with him, we would. And I would say, "Okay, that sentence doesn't work, doesn't fit with the timing of the music." So we're up to now, I think four or five songs. So then after composing it, then I record it. So it's challenging and it's fascinating. And I think, "Okay, yeah, well I can do this." So that's always to just always to improve and to go out of your comfort zone a bit. And that's great. Yeah. That's very good. Yes. Keeps the passion alive.
Leah Roseman:
Yeah, actually, that's been a big theme actually in your life, is going out of your comfort zone.
Gertrude Létourneau:
It's true. It's true. Yeah. Unknown territories.
Leah Roseman:
I just wanted to thank you so much for today. I really appreciate your stories and your music.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Oh, you're very welcome, Leah. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to share all these stories and elements of my passion.
Leah Roseman:
Thank you so much.
Gertrude Létourneau:
You're welcome.
Leah Roseman:
Well, your website will be linked in the description.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Okay.
Leah Roseman:
So your workshops will be linked. So I hope you can be a mentor to many fellow musicians. You're so inspiring and I just loved hearing your music and your stories today.
Gertrude Létourneau:
Thank you so much, Leah.
Leah Roseman:
I hope this episode resonated with you. I really endeavor to show the breadth and depth of a life in music by featuring an interesting variety of musicians worldwide. Thanks for following this series. Have a good week.
