Hillary Simms Trombonist: a Candid Interview

This is the transcript of my interview with the trombonist Hillary Simms. The link button just above here takes you to the show notes with more links, and the podcast and video versions.

Hillary Simms (00:00:00):

Lack of compassion or self-compassion that students have is I think actually the biggest thing that we need to practice. And I noticed that because it was something that I really struggled with, and if any of my teachers are listening to this at this point, they're probably laughing because this is something that I really had to work through is not only do you have to love what you're doing, but you have to love yourself while doing it. You have to be kind to yourself. And something I'm noticing with all students is that because music and our playing is such a personal thing, we really tie our identities to what we do. So when you're going through a conservatory or you're going through a school or you're getting lessons, your teacher's specifically there to help get you to that next level. And usually that comes with critique of your playing.

(00:00:50):

And so then people then translate that into critique of yourself. And then you are your own worst critic. So if you're constantly going through your own self doubt and then you're having a teacher saying like, okay, well you should try this, or You really need to work on this, it all just kind of translates into your head as like, I'm not good enough, or I'll never do this, or just thoughts that can really be degrading to what you're doing and just not productive. So something that I actually talk to a lot of students about one-on-one is, and maybe I'm paying this forward from lessons that some of my teachers gave me, but be kind to yourself. If you love what you're doing, remember how you started doing it?

Leah Roseman (00:01:34):

Hi. You're listening to Conversations with Musicians with Leah Roseman. This podcast strives to inspire you through the personal stories of a diversity of musicians with in-depth conversations and great music that revealed the depth and breadth to a life in music. Hillary Simms is a virtuosic Canadian trombone player with the esteemed American Brass Quintet and is on faculty at the Julliard School. She performed as a soloist a couple of times with my orchestra, Canada's National Arts Centre Orchestra, and you'll hear us talk about the arc of her career so far as a chamber musician, soloist educator, and busy freelancer. We decided to delay the release of this episode slightly in order to include a wonderful recent recording of the American Brass Quintet, a movement from David Biedenbender's wonderful work, Sacred Geometry. This is the first recording of the group with Hillary performing and you'll find more information and links in the show notes of this podcast.

(00:02:27):

Hillary's warmth and love of music comes through in this candid interview, from her childhood in Newfoundland to playing on the world's biggest stages and also the unusual situation she found herself in when her engagement to her husband became a viral sensation in China. As the first woman to join the American Brass Quintet since 1960, Hillary spoke to me about gender disparity in the brass world and some of her strong female role models. Hillary shares wonderful insights for all of us, whether you pursue music as a career or follow a different path, of the need to have self-compassion and have an awareness of the big picture of your life. Like all my episodes, you can watch this on my YouTube channel or listen to the podcast. And I've also linked the transcript to my website, leahroseman.com. The podcast theme music was commissioned from composer Nick Kold, and you can use the timestamps to navigate the episode.

(00:03:19):

This weekly podcast is in season four, and after this episode, I'll be taking a short break from my computer and from social media publicity for a couple of weeks, with some new episodes coming at the end of August. For those of you who subscribe to my email newsletter, you already know about the upcoming episodes because I offer exclusive sneak peeks of upcoming guests for the newsletter subscribers. Have a look at the description of this episode where you'll find all the links, including my merch store for the very cool shirts, mugs, and more, the support link to buy this independent podcaster a coffee, and of course, for Hillary Simms.

(00:03:53):

Hey, Hillary, thanks so much for joining me here today.

Hillary Simms (00:03:59):

Hi, it's great to be here.

Leah Roseman (00:04:02):

There's so much to talk about and I was thinking it might be interesting to talk about when I first discovered you was actually you performed with our orchestra and it was kind of the beginning of the pandemic in 2020.

Hillary Simms (00:04:12):

It was, yeah,

Leah Roseman (00:04:13):

I was going to say to an empty hall like this, bizarre concerts we did.

Hillary Simms (00:04:17):

Yeah, the Pandemic Hall. I actually remember getting that email. It was over the summer. I was in Newfoundland because I had traveled home to be with my parents during the pandemic because I was still a student, and I got this email and it was from your personnel manager saying, we would love to work with you, one of the 30 under 30 classical musicians that CBC announced. And I just remember reading this and thinking, wait, it said solo opportunity. And I emailed back, I was like, do you want me to solo with your orchestra? And you up there saying, yes, that's exactly it. I was like, oh my God. And I freaked out. That was a really great experience, but it kept getting postponed because of the pandemic, so.

Leah Roseman (00:05:05):

So that first performance was the Tomasi Concerto, right?

Hillary Simms (00:05:07):

Yeah.

Leah Roseman (00:05:10):

Because you've played with us several times and that performance is still available online. And I'll link it to this episode so people can just click on that.

Hillary Simms (00:05:18):

That one is still online, which is both a terrifying fact and also amazing. But yeah, no, Tomasi was the first, and then I played for your Canada Day celebration in 2022, and I did the David Concertina for trombone and then the Elizabeth Raum Romance as well for that performance. Yeah, yeah, good times.

Leah Roseman (00:05:46):

So the Tomasi Concerto, it really explores the range of possibilities of the trombone.

Hillary Simms (00:05:54):

Yeah, it's actually part of our standard rep now, but it's not an easy piece to play for a lot of students. So to really kind of master the nuance of the characters and the style is incredible. Not to mention just the range that the piece explores. It's quite a feat and it's one of my favorites actually. So I was super excited that I got to play it with NACO.

Leah Roseman (00:06:17):

Did you get to pick the rep for that concert?

Hillary Simms (00:06:20):

They mentioned a couple of different, yeah, I did pick the Tomasi for that. Yeah, I'm trying to remember now. I'm getting fooled up with the David performance and then this performance. But yeah, no, I chose the for that one.

Leah Roseman (00:06:37):

For me, I have to say it was a very scary time in the pandemic, and we had all these very strict rules. Of course, we were wearing masks, and as a string player, my first reaction was what we're getting a trombone player going to be blowing right in front of us? I was worried about getting sick, but then of course it was so great, and I thought, why don't we have trombone soloists all the time? It's a fantastic solo instrument.

Hillary Simms (00:06:57):

Well, I'm happy I persuaded you to the other side of that, actually. Well, from my perspective, I was living in Newfoundland, and because Newfoundland's an island, they had very strict rules at that point of coming in and out of the island and then isolating because of all the Covid protocols that were happening. So for me to do this performance and to fly to Ottawa, when I came back, I had to isolate for two weeks and not see anyone. So it was kind of a risk for me too. And this was also before all the vaccines happened. So it was like, okay, this would be amazing to do for my career. And just the experience. And also during that time, I was a student, I was a DMA student online, so to me it was like, oh, am I ready to do a performance like this? That was my first time in front of an orchestra.

(00:07:48):

And I mean, it was so exciting, but at the same time, there was a lot of trepidation about, should I be doing this right now? Should I be traveling? Will I get sick? We're not vaccinated. At the time I was living with my parents, I was like, I might get them sick. I have to isolate. Can I do - There were so many factors, but I am so happy that it happened that I did it, that it's out there still. I mean, performing to an empty hall and being told when you finish, "look at that camera over there and bow", being like, "okay. Yes." No, it was a great experience overall.

Leah Roseman (00:08:26):

So you're a member of the American Brass Quintet. Yes. And as part of that, you teach at Julliard.

Hillary Simms (00:08:32):

Yes. Accurate.

Leah Roseman (00:08:35):

So how big is your role as an educator at Julliard? I'm curious.

Hillary Simms (00:08:40):

Yeah. So right now I am on faculty for trombone at Julliard. So if a student chooses to study with me, they'd be in my studio. Since I'm new there, I don't have much of a studio there right now. So I primarily teach in the chamber music section. So the American Brass Quintet, they're Artists in Residence at Julliard. And then through that we are faculty members and we run the American Brass Seminar at Julliard. So all brass students will actually come through the seminar and do chamber music. You don't do chamber music with any other brass faculty. It's with ABQ. So I actually get to teach all of the students in the brass program and not just trombonists because of this seminar.

Leah Roseman (00:09:21):

Okay, very cool. I really love brass music. In fact, we had a brass quartet at our wedding.

Hillary Simms (00:09:29):

Oh, cool.

(00:09:29):

And who played there was Karen Donnelly. I've been a friend of hers for I think 30 years.

(00:09:35):

Karen Donnelly is a personal hero of mine. I love her. She's so good.

Leah Roseman (00:09:40):

And she was featured on this podcast back in season one, and we talked about the Women's, Canadian Women's Brass Collective, which was fairly new at the time. And you're involved with that as well?

Hillary Simms (00:09:49):

I am, yeah. I am on their artistic committee, but my primary role with the committee is actually doing a lot of their social media outreach stuff. No, it's a wonderful initiative that they've started. I'm so happy to be a part of the work that they do.

Leah Roseman (00:10:07):

So I'm curious about your audition process. I read a little bit about it for the American Brass Quintet because it's not like an orchestral audition, obviously for chamber music.

Hillary Simms (00:10:15):

It really isn't. My story is kind of funny in that the American Brass Quintet, they only, if you're a part of the Quintet, you have to be in New York. So when they were first looking for a trombonist at the time, it was a little iffy, mainly because my predecessor, Mike Powell fell ill and he could no longer play. So they were wondering like, oh, should we actually be auditioning for this position? We're leaving it open for him, should he come back? There was just a lot of unknowns at the time, but they did decide to audition at the end, and when they did, they only chose people in New York. So I was on a brass quintet tour with another group, and after the concert we went out and had supper and they were all talking about, oh yeah, I hear they're auditioning for trumpet and trombone and their trombone position, I guess they're going to be filled. I have a friend who's doing this, and I was like, hold up, someone fill me in. Because I had known Kevin and Rojak, the trumpet and bass trombone player. They were on faculty at the Colorado College Summer music program where I went for three summers in a row and I loved playing with them. And in the back of my head, I always said like, man, that would be a dream job if that position ever opened up. I would love to be in the American Brass Quintet, and I'm a bit of an opportunist. So as soon as I heard this, I was like, what? I want that job. I want to be considered. I can't believe they're in their finals already for these positions. So I emailed Rojak and I said, "I just found out you guys are auditioning any chance you'd consider me. I hear you have to live in New York. I'll move. Tell me what I got to do. I would love an audition. "And he wrote back very respectfully saying, "we're in the finals already. We are listening to two people this week. We did consider you at first, but you didn't live in New York at this point. We're so far in our quest to find a trombone player that it won't work out this time." So I was like, well, at least I tried. This was in December, early December, and then I went to Newfounland for Christmas and on Boxing Day on December 26th, so three weeks later, I get this email saying, "can you be in New York the end of January, and here's all the rep". And I remember looking at the rep and it was like if I printed it out, it would've easily stacked that high. There was so much rep. And of course I said, yes. I gave them my available dates, and I think my audition date was January 28th or something. So I had basically a month to put together this rep, but it only solidified within three weeks. And I went in, I flew to New York, my husband came with me, and we were living in Evanston, Illinois at the time. We flew to New York, went and saw some Broadway musicals, tried to get all the nerves and shakes out. And then, yeah, I auditioned. It's a very long audition because we played through a lot of the rep. There was a lot of talking, and that was a Monday. And on Thursday I was back in school at Northwestern and I get this call saying, "so here are our tour dates for the rest of the season. Are you available?" And I was like, "wait, did that mean I got the job?" But he was like, "well, your trial period starts now." So I was like, oh my God. So yeah, then I started my trial and I played with them from March till the end of May and did like six or seven tours. And by May they gave me the official thumbs up. I'm in the American Brass Quintet, so if someone says no to you, it doesn't always mean there's always some wiggle room in there for these opportunities. But I was really happy that I emailed and I reached out, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten it.

Leah Roseman (00:14:10):

And I understand as part of this audition, you had to learn new rep with them that was new to them as well.

Hillary Simms (00:14:16):

So that was actually part of my trial because the American Brass Quintet, they commissioned so many new works as part of their mission as a quintet, that being able to get a new work and work with it with the group, workshop it, and then premiere it and put your own sound into their sound and really master that, that's a part of their whole audition process as well. So the piece that was given to me to premiere was Anthony Barfield's Samsara, and it's actually one of my favorite pieces now to perform with them, just because I took it very seriously, obviously, and really studied the work before we started workshopping at rehearsals. But yeah, so that was a part of my trial was to workshop and premiere that, and it was a wonderful experience. And meeting the composer as well was great. Yeah, it is a really exciting group to be a part of just within the work that they do for the Brass Quintet community and the repertoire that they're putting out there, it's just unbelievable. So yeah, no, I'm super happy that it's all worked out and that I passed their audition.

Leah Roseman (00:15:24):

So a lot of brass quintets have a tuba instead of a bass trombone.

Hillary Simms (00:15:27):

Correct.

Leah Roseman (00:15:30):

Excuse my ignorance, but can the same rep be played on both? How far is it in range?

Hillary Simms (00:15:37):

I mean, the range is the same if not similar, but it's more about the sound of the quintet. So I mean, tuba has this all encompassing sound, whereas the bass trombone can blend a lot more with the tenor trombone and just really have that, I almost call myself the overtones for Rojak whenever we play and we have these octaves. It is just a completely different sound, and it's what the American Brass Quintet has always stuck with, they started with the bass trombone player. They liked that sound. Eventually down the road, John Rojak got into the group and that's it. He's just been in the group, so he's not going to switch to tuba. They're not going to throw him out and get a tuba player. This is just the sound of the group, and it's very neat. It's a different color. I really love it. It's great.

Leah Roseman (00:16:29):

Is there a bit of an attempt to have more inclusion of women and non-binary composers in the commissions?

Hillary Simms (00:16:37):

I mean, the answer is yes, but they also have been commissioning women before it kind of became a woke thing to do. We just recorded Jennifer Higdon's Book of Brass. They had Jennifer Higdon write this massive piece for Brass quintet, and it's beautiful. It has four chapters. They're not movements. She calls 'em chapters, and you can play them in any order you want. They're actually pretty phenomenal when that recording comes out. We only did it just this week. There will be video content too. It's really great to see it and to hear it. It's an incredible work. I can't really vocalize how cool it is, but yeah, I mean, I am not the person necessarily to definitely ask about this, but it's a part of the mission of ABQ is to get the composers that are here in this day where they're trying to find the Mozart, the Brahms, the Beethoven of our time. And so they're just looking to get the best composers who's out there. And a lot of that, there are a lot of female composers and non-binary composers and people of color that are coming out right now that are the cool composers. So yeah, we are working with them, but there's a lot that goes into the commissioning process that I'm still learning.

Leah Roseman (00:17:57):

I was going to ask about extended techniques because you're working with new music.

Hillary Simms (00:18:02):

Yeah.

Leah Roseman (00:18:05):

Well, are there techniques that you have suggested or things they ask for that don't work or your favorite extended techniques?

Hillary Simms (00:18:16):

Yeah, I mean, I don't think I have favorite extended techniques. It always takes me out of the realm of comfort. But I will say the Sacred Geometry by David Biedenbender is a piece that the group premiered in the last couple of years, and we've been touring it this year and just recorded it. And in that we have to use these microtones moving up these quarter, quarter tone, sorry. And I call them micro because every time when I'm looking at my slide, I'm like, okay, here's sixth position, but I have to be higher than sixth. So it's not really between. And I think the indication in the music says, falling down an up escalator and the trombone, so I have to do this (singing).

(00:19:03):

And that was actually really tricky for me to learn, mainly because as a trombonist, we're always told have good slide technique, exactly where each position is muscle memory, micro intonation and all these things. And then to deliberately go in between every single position, it's like, oh my God, this is hurting my brain to do this. So it's a very cool effect in the music, and it took me a minute to kind of get my brain to work in that way. But the effect is awesome. And outside of that, I mean extended technique for trombone doesn't really, I don't even know what's extended anymore because it's all just, you have to do it like flutter tongue and growling and trills, and I mean, I wouldn't even call that extended anymore, but it's all written in the music. It's fair game for composers. So you just have to be able to do it.

Leah Roseman (00:19:59):

And is there singing Multiphonics?

Hillary Simms (00:20:03):

There hasn't been in the rep that I'm doing right now, but Multiphonics definitely exists in a lot of rep. Yeah,

Leah Roseman (00:20:13):

You are about to hear the second movement entitled Gaudi from Sacred Geometry by David Biedenbender performed by the American Brass Quintet with trumpets Kevin Cobb and Brandon Ridenour, Eric Reed on French Horn, Hillary Simms trombone, and John Rojak on bass trombone. You'll find the link to this video on the American Brass Quintet's YouTube channel in the description of this podcast, along with their website. (music)

(00:25:20):

Well, in terms of stuff that you have put on your YouTube, you did a recital about 10 months ago with some beautiful Charles Ives pieces of Songs my Mother Taught Me.

Hillary Simms (00:25:29):

Yeah, that recital, I uploaded it about 10 months ago, but that was my first year recital at the Glen Gould School, so I actually did that.

Leah Roseman (00:25:37):

Oh, really?

Hillary Simms (00:25:38):

Yeah, I did that in 2018, and I didn't, it's funny, I actually didn't love the recordings. I can pick them apart. I can tell you exactly what I was thinking in every single moment, but I kind of hit this moment of clarity. I was getting a lot of attention with my new job and winning this audition with the American Brass Quintet and being part of Juilliard. And a lot of it people, all these interviewers were saying, we need content. Do you have anything? And I was looking at a lot of the videos, I was like, you know what? You just have to post things or you just have to get it out there, warts and all.

(00:26:12):

It's a live performance accept yourself. This is where you were at this time. And I can kind of hear it without thinking too harshly and being self-critical. So yeah, so I posted the Charles Ives set that I did, which was actually the most fun I had on that recital. I loved those pieces. And specifically the Songs My Mother Taught Me, it's for soprano or mezo soprano. It's for a female voice. And to get that on the trombone, I was actually going to attempt it on alto trombone, but I thought, no, that's not the right color. You still need the depth and the warmth of the sound. And so I decided to put a cup mute in for that piece just to kind of get that soft, nostalgic kind of color. And then I put it up the, instead of playing it a little lower, I kept it in the octave that it's written for the mezzo or the soprano, which put me in a vulnerable position, chopwise in a recital. And I thought that that vulnerability in a live performance with the cup mute, which gives it more resistance, makes it a little harder to play and was something that I really wanted to achieve in terms of just the color of the piece and what I thought the sentiment was. So I actually, I can look at it now more as less about, oh, technique, you do that kind of thing, and more of like, okay, I think I achieved what I wanted to, so I'll just post it.

Leah Roseman (00:27:38):

You were about to hear Songs My Mother Taught Me by Charles Ives from a 2019 live performance. The link to the video on Hillary's YouTube channel is in the description of this podcast.(Music)

(00:27:49):

Now, you're also a singer?

Hillary Simms (00:30:08):

Not really. I call singing my party trick. I took lessons in high school, and outside of that, I was in a acapella group during my undergrad at McGill. But no, I'm not a singer. My husband's a singer. It's my party trick.

Leah Roseman (00:30:25):

But it must be an important part of your life. I get the feeling you love it.

Hillary Simms (00:30:29):

Oh, yeah. I mean, singing to me is something that's just really freeing. It's because I don't take it professionally whatsoever. I can use bad technique just to get a sound out. And I don't know, to me it's just, it's my natural voice. My voice is something that I try to emulate on the trombone. So I do a lot of singing in practice. If I'm teaching, you can ask any of my students we're singing in my office or wherever the lesson is, even in masterclasses with ABQ, it's kind of, we all have our little trademarks of what we work with a chamber group on in a masterclass. And my thing is always to get the students to sing regardless of an audience, and I'll sing with them. I was like, look, we're not singing to be professionals. We're singing to understand what's internally going on in our heads so that we can produce it on our instrument. So yeah, singing has just, it's become a part of my life in both a professional capacity, but then also just as a freeing thing. Yeah, I don't know. I never really thought about it as what does it mean to be a part of my life as a vocalist? But I don't know. I love singing to no actual professional capacity.

Leah Roseman (00:31:44):

Yeah. I know you've told the story many times, but my audiences may not have heard the story of how you started the trombone. And I think it's pretty charming.

Hillary Simms (00:31:53):

It's fun. But the school that I went to, they start band program in grade four, and I'm the youngest of three kids in my family. My sister's five years older than me. My brother's two years older than me. And when they both got to grade four, I saw them pick up these instruments and my sister played the clarinet, and I thought like, oh, wow, that's so cool. She has an instrument. She gets to play, she gets to practice it, she gets to bring it home. And I'm just mind blown because at that point, we had a piano in our house, and I would just sit at the piano and make up tunes. And so I felt like, wow, you get a cool instrument. And then my brother started and he got trombone when he started in band. And I remember thinking, that's awesome. That's so cool.

(00:32:32):

Look at the slide. And then when it got to my turn, you get to put down three instruments on list that you get to try it. What are your preferences? And I remember going to the instrument demo and having older students in the school play their instruments for the new grade four class for beginning band. And I remember, I think I put down trumpet as my number one because I loved listening to the Nat King Cole album that had the L-O-V-E in it, and I loved the trumpet solo in it. I was like, I'm going to be a trumpet player. That's it. You can't argue with me. So trumpet was number one. And then I put down clarinet as number two. My sister played it, and then they were like, you need a third preference. And I just kept thinking, well, I don't need a third preference.

(00:33:19):

I'm going to play the trumpet, so that's it. I don't need another one. And then the tubist of the Wind Ensemble in high school got up and played the A&W root beer song, and I was like, that's pretty cool. I liked that one. So I put down tuba as my third option. The next week we go in, we tried all these instruments. My band teacher found out that I had a good buzz on a mouthpiece, which is kind of indicative that they'd be good at playing a brass instrument. And so immediately the clarinet was thrown out as an option. She tried me on a trumpet mouthpiece. I could get a really good buzz on the trumpet mouthpiece. I was like, this is it. I'm going to play trumpet. But then my band teacher's like, oh my God, I have a talented student. What can I put her on that I need in the band?

(00:34:00):

And then slowly, I tried a trombone mouthpiece, and then I tried a tuba mouthpiece, and I can make a really good buzz on a tuba mouthpiece. So while everyone else in my class had flute and trumpet and trombone and clarinet, and I walked home with a tuba and I could barely lift it. I mean, I was nine years old, and I remember bringing home the little slip that said, congratulations, Hillary, you get to play the tuba. And my mom read it, and I love my mom, and she remembers the story a little differently, but she basically saw that, she was like, you can't play the tuba. We know you're really musical. You can't play the tuba. You can't play oompa-loompas in the back of an orchestra or back of a band. So she ended up talking to my band teacher and was like," look, do you have anything?We think she's musical. She wants to play the trumpet". And my band teacher, I don't know how that conversation went, but the result was to put me on euphonium. And I think the idea that my band teacher had at the time was if I put her on euphonium, she'll learn all the valves. I can move her to Tub if I need to, but also it'll be the same range and same mouthpiece as a trombone, so I can move her there if I need to. My band teacher is very strategic in that way, and I can't say for certain if that's what her thinking was, but knowing her, I think it might've clued in at some point. But yeah, I started on euphonium and loved it, got all the counter melodies in the bands, and I just thought like, oh, this is where I should be.

(00:35:30):

This is amazing. It's better than the trumpet. And then my band teacher needed a trombone player. She was like, I need someone strong who can play loud in the jazz band. And I said, oh, cool. Is euphonium in jazz band? She's like, no, I need you to switch over to a trombone. I was like, oh, cool. I get a second instrument. She's like, well, no, I need you to solely be on trombone. I'd add you to the window ensemble as trombone, but I play euphonium. I can't be euphonium and a trombone player in the same band. And that's when grade seven, Hillary found out she was no longer playing the euphonium. And it was the one time that I actually cried over not being able to play my euphonium. And I told my teacher, I was like, please keep me on euphonium. It's like, Nope, we need a trombone player at this point. And so I lost that battle and decided to make a career out of it. So that's the very long-winded version of how I got started on the trombone. I never wanted to play trombone. That was what my brother played. I was supposed to play the tuba, but I wanted to play the trumpet.

Leah Roseman (00:36:36):

So the euphonium's like a small tuba, and it's just used in some repertoire, like more concert bands and orchestras. Do you know why that is?

Hillary Simms (00:36:46):

I'm sure there's a very logical reason, and I just don't know it, but the most logical reason that I would have is that the euphonium is a relatively newer instrument. It was used in brass bands in England and all that stuff much way before it ever came into the orchestral realm. So you only see it in works like Holst's The Planets, and I think Strauss uses it at some point. So later period, we'll see the euphonium based on these brass band colors that you could get. And I know someone in your comment section will definitely tell me the history of the euphonium, and I'll educate myself probably after this, but I would say it's probably just because it's a little later in the game in terms of when the euphonium was made, became popular, could be situated in an orchestra. So a lot of the repertoire that's written for a euphonium is in band music.

Leah Roseman (00:37:44):

Yeah, it's interesting if you think about it, things like the saxophone, this very limited repertoire where suddenly there's a saxophone. Yeah,

Hillary Simms (00:37:52):

I think the euphonium falls in the same camp.

Leah Roseman (00:37:55):

So most of my audience are not living in Canada, and they won't know what Newfoundland is or what it means that you're from there.

Hillary Simms (00:38:07):

Oh, I could talk for an hour and a half about Newfoundland, so you might have to cut me off. Newfoundland in Labrador is a province in Canada. Labrador is attached to Quebec and is kind of like a part of the mainland. And then Newfoundland is the island, and it's very much not the mainland. And the fact that I call Canada the mainland and Newfoundland the island is pretty indicative of how Newfoundlanders think I'm an islander through and through. I mean, what would you like to know about Newfoundland in particular?

Leah Roseman (00:38:43):

Well, my sister lives in Newfoundland, and I've been there a few times. But you didn't join Canada till what? 1947.

Hillary Simms (00:38:51):

1949.

Leah Roseman (00:38:53):

Okay, there we go. Ignorance.

Hillary Simms (00:38:55):

Like I said, I can talk forever about Newfoundland, and actually when they voted for Confederation to be a part of Canada or not, the vote was 51% to 49%. So half of the then country didn't want to do it, but it was just that pesky 2% difference. And we joined Canada. It's very interesting to know that in 1949, which is there are still generations that remember that day that we almost weren't a part of Canada. We were our own country up until 1949. That's kind of crazy to think, but yeah, when you go to Newfoundland, there's such a distinctive culture and color of people and just in terms of personality, and you kind of get the vibe that they were left alone for a while by themselves.

Leah Roseman (00:39:49):

Hi, just a short break from the episode, which I hope you're enjoying so far. I wanted to let you know that I have a new way you can support this independent podcast through a beautiful collection of merch with a very cool, unique, and expressive design from artists Steffi Kelly. You'll find that link in the description of the episode. If you want to check out over a hundred episodes you may have missed in addition to your podcast player or YouTube, I have an extensive website, leahroseman.com with show notes, transcripts, the complete catalog of episodes, and you can sign up there for my weekly newsletter to get access to sneak peeks of upcoming guests. Please do share your favorite episodes with your friends, follow me on social media and share my posts. And if you can spare a few dollars to help support the series, that would be amazing. You'll find that link in the show notes along with the merch store. I'm an independent podcaster and I really do need the help of my listeners. Now, back to the episode.

(00:40:43):

I found it interesting when I was researching you, Hillary, that your aspirations as a young trombonist were to play chamber music and be a soloist, not so much to be in an orchestra.

Hillary Simms (00:40:53):

Yeah, I really don't know what came over me to always aspire to do that, but I liked playing in orchestra. I was in youth orchestra in Newfoundland when I started my undergrad, I just knew I wanted to play trombone and get my undergrad, but the more I learned about orchestral life and sitting in an orchestra, to me, I never really listened to orchestral music until I went to school. And even then, I didn't want to sit down and just listen to a Mahler Symphony. They're beautiful pieces of work and I love playing them, but to sit down and actually just listen to it for fun, that wasn't my jam at all. And actually, it used to bother me being on road trips with all my friends and they're like, let's listen to Ein Heldenleben. Like, oh, do we have to? Really? So I guess I was a little different in that respect, but something that I loved, even in high school, I was in a brass quintet.

(00:41:51):

I loved brass quintet. I loved playing chamber music. I loved the fact that there was no conductor. I loved the colors that you can get when you play a certain way with a certain player. To me, even with the American Brass Quintet, like I said, I feel like sometimes I'm just Rojak's overtones being the tenor trombone to his bass trombone. And then when I have duets with Eric, our French hornist, how can I amplify the colors of the French horn and play with him? To me, it's a much more artistic and involved process than sitting in an orchestra, which to each their own kind of thing. I still love playing in orchestras, but I feel like I have more of a contributing voice in a chamber group than I do in an orchestra. So to me, it was just kind of like, I'll take whatever career I can get.

(00:42:44):

I know it's hard to be a musician in general, so I'm just going to audition for orchestras, for chamber groups. I'll start my own, I'll do whatever. But I was very, very fortunate in how I was trained throughout my many degrees just on technique and being a trombonist and how I fit in into whatever ensemble I'm playing in. So yeah, I was trained in orchestral repertoire. I was trained in chamber music. I was trained to be a soloist, and I think that really kind of helped shaped my aspirations of what I did want to become. I just knew that I loved chamber music, so if there was ever an opportunity, I would jump on it. And in the brass world, there aren't many opportunities to have a full-time job in a chamber ensemble. So you either have to create your own on the side, or you get into the American Brass Quintet, Canadian Brass or one of these.

(00:43:41):

So I'm very lucky in that respect. But from a very early age, I knew that I loved playing solos because I felt like that was where I could really sing and be myself. And I loved chamber music. I loved playing with my friends. I loved just making fun cool sounds and having it on our terms. And there's no real classical format to a lot of the things that we could do. And yeah, I don't know. To me it was just like I had a more artistic process to it, and I loved that aspect of it. So yeah, I always aspired to do that. I still play in orchestras. I like freelancing. It's super fun to me. But yeah, just in terms of where I went with my career, that's where I ended up.

Leah Roseman (00:44:25):

So when you were in high school, you actually played in a masterclass for Doug Burden, our former bass trombone player? I

Hillary Simms (00:44:31):

Did, yeah.

Leah Roseman (00:44:33):

He asked me to ask you about that because he was actually featured on this podcast. So for trombone nerds out there, they might want to hear that interview,

Hillary Simms (00:44:39):

Right? Gosh. So when I was in high school from, well, junior high, so grade nine to grade 12, I studied with Dr. Karen Bulmer at Memorial University of Newfoundland. And so I would actually skip school to go to university and go to master classes for their low brass class. And then Karen would teach me after those classes or before those classes. And slowly during, so those four years from grade nine to grade 12, I actually was kind of doing a mini undergrad in performance practices, which was really cool. And I owe a lot to Karen for allowing me to do that. I mean, I was just a high school kid. She welcomed me into her universe and really exposed me to a lot of different performance opportunities. But one of them was when NACO came to Newfoundland and Mr. Burden gave a masterclass, and it was for the students at Memorial, and Karen was like, well, would you like to perform?

(00:45:40):

And to me, it was like, wait, really? This is for them? Are you sure? She was like, yeah, I think it'd be really good for you to get that performance experience. So I freaked out and I was so excited to do it. And I remember it was at MUN, it was in what was then known as the Petro Canada Hall. I think it's called the Suncor Hall now. And yeah, I played the Šulek piece for him, which the Stefan Šulek, Vox Gabrieli is the name. Anyways, I played that. It's an eight minute piece, and all I remember was Mr. Burden smiling just like the whole time. And to me, it was just like, are you smiling? This is funny. Are you smiling? This is okay. And I mean, I was a very green player at that point, so it's not like it was amazing, but I think he saw something in my playing at that point that he could work with. And I just remember it as a super positive beginning to my performance and Oh, wow, this is fun. I should definitely do an undergrad in this. And here I am 15, 16 years old. So yeah, it was a great experience for me. I hope he remembers it the same way.

Leah Roseman (00:46:54):

Yeah, I'm sure he does. So I also went to McGill for my undergrad. What was your experience like?

Hillary Simms (00:47:01):

I was at McGill from 2012 to 2016, and I mean, I had a great time. I learned how to play the trombone. I was in the McGill Symphony Orchestra. I was in an acapella group on the side. I really had a good time. It was fun living in Montreal, and a lot of the friends that I had during that time, they're still my friends now. My roommate, actually, he was a bridesmaid at my wedding a couple of years ago. So yeah, I mean, I had a good time at McGill.

Leah Roseman (00:47:39):

And I was curious to ask, Gordon Wolfe is one of your mentors in Toronto. Do you want to speak to his teaching and how that's impacted the way you teach?

Hillary Simms (00:47:49):

Yeah. First off, Gord Wolfe is hands down, one of the best teachers in the universe if you ask me. I learned so much from him, just from him being a mentor to me, and not only just teaching trombone the way that he teaches so into the music, he gets so excited by the characters. Even just in an excerpt, I have lesson recordings where it's the most mundane excerpt that we have, and he's like, play it like this. And he's just so enthusiastic. And he really kind of helped change my mindset about what I was doing. When I started at Glenn Gould, I wasn't necessarily sure if trombone and this music life was what I was going to do. I was questioning it a lot. I had kind of fallen out of love with what I was doing, and his enthusiasm for technique and his enthusiasm for the music that we play, and his commitment to his students, just for me, it was like, okay, here I have someone who's really rallying for me.

(00:48:56):

I'll try. I'll just keep going. I'll play by his rules and see what happens. And I ended up falling in love with music again and with trombone, and that was just even in the first four months of me studying with him. After that, he was a real coach to my career and setting me up for success. And I owe a lot to Gord, and if I still have questions, I'll reach out to him about certain things. But I think the fact that he was such an advocate for me and he really supported me, made me as a teacher. Now it's like I can zoom out of what the student is going through right now and can kind of help give them a perspective based on what Gord has worked on with me. It's like what you're feeling right in this moment matters. But in the grand scheme of things, this is a bad day. Why don't we just treat it as a bad day? We'll close the chapter on this book and let's move on to another chapter. And that was something that I thought Gord was really good at helping me kind of to prioritize a larger picture.

Leah Roseman (00:49:57):

Yeah, that's fantastic. Yeah. It's interesting with burnout, because with music, it requires such sustained effort over such a long time. Yes, with no guarantee of success.

Hillary Simms (00:50:10):

And we're taught at a young age to hustle and network, and there's just so many pressures on top of just perfecting your instrument. So yeah, burnout is real. And at that point, I was coming of my master's and joining the community at Glen Gould was probably the best thing that I did in terms of school. I did a lot of great things, and I'm really happy about where I went to school. But that was, if I was to say a turning point in my career, I gained a lot of confidence working with Gord and being at that community.

Leah Roseman (00:50:47):

But at Yale, for your master's, you met Ricky, your husband?

Hillary Simms (00:50:50):

I did. Best part of my master's. Yeah. No, I met my husband at Yale. Yes. Yeah, he's an opera singer in the program there. And obviously I was a trombonist and yeah.

Leah Roseman (00:51:04):

Are you willing to share the story of his viral fame and how that affected you? It's pretty fun.

Hillary Simms (00:51:10):

I mean, sure. What would you like to know?

Leah Roseman (00:51:14):

Well, I've heard you tell the story, but not everyone will have heard.

Hillary Simms (00:51:19):

Right. So I was a year ahead of Ricky in our program at Yale. So I was in the two year master's program. I was in my second year. He was in his first, we met and we were together for that year, fell in love, la, la, la, la. The year after, when he was doing his second year at Yale, that's when I started at Glenn Gould. So we were going to be doing distance from Toronto to New Haven, Connecticut, and he was with me in Aspen, actually. We were both there for their summer music program. And he got this call and was like, Mr. Ricky, would you be interested in being in a new television show in China about opera singing called Super Vocal. And at this point, Ricky was like, I'll take whatever opportunity. Sure. What is this? And they flew him to China straight from Aspen.

(00:52:10):

So I was like, okay, bye. And I think they did a week preview of what filming could look like. It was kind of like a tester. Anyways, after that, he got the official invite to be on the show, and filming was going to start in September, so he had to take a leave of absence from Yale. We were now doing distance from Toronto and China, and he was there for four or five months filming this TV show. And it ended up being this big success. There were a lot of viewerships. He himself became popular in this cast. He had his own following. And anyways, he came back from China. We got engaged. And this is where the story gets funny for me, because when we got engaged, I don't know any person who has good news, you just kind of share about it or you post about it on social media.

(00:53:05):

So I posted a picture of us getting engaged. I was like, here's my ring. Woohoo. I wrote a silly little limerick. I'm weird that way. And we put it on Facebook, but he was like, let's keep the privacy settings on it, so don't make it a public post just for our friends. And I was like, okay, sounds good. But then my mom wanted to share it for her friends, so she was like, I can't share it with your privacy settings. Can you make it public for a minute so I can share this? So I made it public. At this point, we're in the summer months. I'm at a summer music festival in Colorado, Ricky's in China, dealing with the fame of the show. And I made this post public so that my mom could share it, and I forgot to put it back on private.

(00:53:51):

And Ricky is asleep because of the time difference in China. And he woke up and found out that we had gone completely viral in China and that our engagement pictures were posted everywhere. They have something called the Hot Search, and I think for all of China on social media and the news. And we were number three on that hot search. And there was this video in ET Canada as kind of like"" in news today, Ricky Nan and is now engaged or whatever, but it's all in Mandarin. And that went viral too. And I got 1.2 billion shares of views, and I am here in Colorado knowing that my face is plastered all over China right now. And it's just a really surreal experience. And then Ricky was obviously going through a bunch of PR stuff back in China. I was like, whoops, sorry. I'll put that back on private mode.

(00:54:52):

But yeah, what ended up happening was I made it public. Someone I guess was searching his name, trying to dig up more things. And then lo and behold, here's our picture with my silly little limerick. And in this video that got billions of views, they actually are showing my Facebook profile. And anyway, so that was a little a lot. But since then, I mean, it's been really cool knowing that he has this, I call it his little secret life, but he has this fame in China, and then we're living here in New York, and he gets recognized when we're on the street, or when he was visiting me in Toronto, we were just going to a Starbucks, and I had my hoodie grunge look, and someone came up to us and took a picture of us together and with them. And he just gets recognized when we're on the street. Not all the time, but there are definitely devoted fans that will approach him. And it's weird. I mean, I play trombone and that's basically my life. But he's this pop star in China, so it's very interesting. But it's fine. It's good.

Leah Roseman (00:56:00):

So being based in New York now, is he getting opportunities with musical theater or more the opera world?

Hillary Simms (00:56:06):

A little both. Sorry, a little of both. He's right now, he's an agent in LA that's working with him, and he's doing some fun things. He's actually filming a microfilm later this month in New York. So he's staying active doing all the things that he's doing.

Leah Roseman (00:56:22):

And he's an actor too, right?

Hillary Simms (00:56:24):

Yep. Yes. Actor, singer, performer, you name it, he'll do it.

Leah Roseman (00:56:29):

Yeah. If people follow you on social media, I mean, you post some really cute reels of the two of you singing together.

(00:56:36):

And actually you did a reel recently when you were doing auditions for Julliard. I thought it was so well done.

Hillary Simms (00:56:43):

Oh, thank you.

Leah Roseman (00:56:44):

Do you want to speak to that?

Hillary Simms (00:56:46):

I'm kind of relatively new coming in. I mean, still being a student myself, technically, to being a faculty member and going through these auditions, and I guess because the memory is so fresh of me being a student and putting so much hope and weight into the audition process that while we were doing auditions at Juilliard, I just kind of had this moment of, I can see it's not even desperation, but I just see how much these students want this. And then I also know if we're auditioning 20 plus students, there's only I think two or three spots that we can actually take because a conservatory school, I just remembered my experience, and I just thought if I can give any clarity or any hope that it doesn't matter. If you don't get in to the school that you want to get into, your career can still work out.

(00:57:42):

It's about what you put into it, not what the school puts into you, per se. So in this video, I just detailed how I'm faculty at Julliard, but I actually, I auditioned for my master's in Julliard, and I didn't even get in. I got waitlisted. So I'm sitting next to my two colleagues who were the people, the exact people who waitlisted me, and now I'm on the panel with them as their colleague. So it kind of just illustrates that it really doesn't matter where you go, it's the work that you put into it. And I thought my story would perhaps help others. So that's why I posted about it. So I'm happy that it's affecting people positively.

Leah Roseman (00:58:24):

I always aspired to do pretty much what I do, except the podcast. I would've had no idea, but play in a good orchestra, play some chamber music, do some teaching. That was always my goal. And when I went to McGill, I was 17, and I think the first week someone asked me what I wanted to do, which no one had ever really asked me before. And I said, well, I had really like to get an orchestra job, and I don't remember who it was, but they said, "well, forget that none of us are going to get an orchestra job. It's way too competitive. They don't let anyone in orchestras." And then I didn't really bring it up with anyone. And in the string world, at least at that time, I'm quite a bit older than you, we didn't play excerpts. There was no mock auditions. We didn't talk about what came after school. It was just this big scary future. So when I was doing my Masters, I thought, well, I better do some auditions. It kind of occurred to me, well, someone needs to fill those jobs. They can't not let in anyone. Right? Of course, it's competitive, but at a certain point, the next generation does fill whatever roles,

Hillary Simms (00:59:20):

Right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I remember actually when I had first met Joe Alessi, my now colleague, but I had asked him, he was like, you should audition for Julliard, for your Masters. You should consider it. I was having a lesson with him before all this audition process, and I remember saying, I was like, well, you just said there's only one spot opened. And he was like, but someone has to take it. And I was like, oh, well, yeah, you're not wrong. And for some reason, that memory always sticks out to me. It has to be someone, why can't it be you? So when I said earlier, I'm an opportunist, that always rings in my head, it has to be someone, so go for it. It could be you. So that's why I always like, oh, I hear about something. Hey, can I do this? Not me typing. I'm not a weirdo, I promise.

Leah Roseman (01:00:10):

So there's another recording of yours on your YouTube that's very beautiful, and it's from a beautiful project, the Song for Japan Trombone Project.

Hillary Simms (01:00:20):

Yeah. That was actually my first time ever doing something and posting it online. That was my first pandemic project actually. Yeah. For the NACO Lunch Break. During your Pandemic, you guys had a lunch series, and I think it was around the same time that I was asked to be a soloist that fall. They were like, would you also like to be a part of the lunch break series? And I said, sure. What would you like? And they were like, well, anything you can use accompaniment for piano, you can do all this stuff. And I just remember thinking, man, I keep seeing people posting these videos of them playing chamber music, but it's them playing all parts and putting it together. And I remember thinking like, oh, that would be really fun to figure out how to do. So for that series, I figured out how to do it, and I was in my parents' basement just recording and hoping it was going to turn out well.

(01:01:16):

And then I had my friend Zach Haas that I met at Yale, and from this experience, I asked him, I was like, tell me how to do this. And we figured it out together. And the result was putting together Song for Japan for this lunch break, which ended up, I listened back to it and it's like, wow. I definitely remember doing that at that time period in my life, and the sound and the color and just kind of what I did with it. But I'm happy about that project. That was good. But it started us, me and Zach specifically, to start doing more of these projects that we posted. We ended up doing this Christmas series, but that was the first video that I had done and just tried out. And then me and Zach kind of were like, okay, if we put this image here and we put that image there, it took a lot. But yeah, I'm happy about that one. That was fun.

Leah Roseman (01:02:11):

But the project Song for Japan, I researched it, but people won't know what that music is about.

Hillary Simms (01:02:17):

Yes. The tsunami that happened in 2011. Yes. So Steven Verhelst is a very popular composer, writes a lot of music for trombone, trombone ensemble, and he decided to write this piece Song for Japan and just offer it up in whatever configuration. So he wrote it as a solo, as a duet, trombone choir, trombone quartet, many different variations. And the project itself was that all these trombones from all over the world came together and recorded it online. And so this was before anyone really did these online collaborations, but they became super popular in the Pandemic. So I thought, well, why don't I kind of honor the trombone world a little bit and do this beautiful song by Steven Verhelst in this collaboration online.

Leah Roseman (01:03:08):

Yeah. And I think a lot of that was fundraising for the victims of the earthquake and tsunami.

Hillary Simms (01:03:13):

Yes.

Leah Roseman (01:03:13):

Well, it's a beautiful piece. Can we include that recording you made?

Hillary Simms (01:03:18):

You definitely can include it. I mean, it's out there for people to listen to, and I remember when NACO posted it. I got a lot of viewers at that point too. So it's out there. It can stay out there. Yeah,

Leah Roseman (01:03:31):

It's beautiful. I really enjoy it.

Hillary Simms (01:03:33):

Okay. Well, thank you. Yes. I look back on it now, and it's actually really funny. I learned from that experience. This is kind of a behind the scenes like, oh my God, Hillary, I can't believe you did this, but my microphone was backwards when I recorded it. So there are certain sounds that I hear. At one point, my mom is upstairs making a cup of tea, and I can hear the spoon clinking in the mug. It just picks up all this other stuff. But that was my very first recording thing that I did online, and my microphone was backwards for it. So it picks up more of the room sound and not a direct sound. So I actually thought about taking it down at one point, but no. Yes, it's out there. It's shareable. You can use it

Leah Roseman (01:04:21):

Now you're about to hear the trombone quartet version of Song for Japan, composed by Steven Verhelst with all parts performed by Hillary Simms from a video recorded in the basement of her parents' home during the 2020 pandemic lockdowns. You'll find the link to this video on her YouTube channel in the description of this podcast. (music)

(01:04:40):

Well, as a podcaster, I've always telling my family, okay, no one can do laundry because even though it's in the basement, you'll hear the spinning up here in the studio. And there were some early episodes I recorded where my husband was teaching a student in the living room. We didn't realize how much the sound would bleed, so I was like, no one can be playing violin while I'm recording, anyway.

Hillary Simms (01:10:24):

If you want to listen to that recording and hear the spoon that my mom was using, it's at the very end when you can hear this little,"ding-a-ding"

Leah Roseman (01:10:36):

And what a Newfoundland thing, right? This tea, it's a whole tea culture, right?

Hillary Simms (01:10:40):

Make it a cup of tea up in the kitchen.

Leah Roseman (01:10:44):

So I was interested that you asked for a relatively early Sunday morning interview because a lot of musicians say to me, oh, I'm not functioning before noon. We have to do it later on. I prefer to do it in the morning. So I was happy,

Hillary Simms (01:10:55):

Yeah, I'm a morning person through and through,

Leah Roseman (01:11:00):

But how do you deal with, because I also have that problem with playing concerts at night and having this musician life can be hard.

Hillary Simms (01:11:06):

It can be I prioritize sleep, I make sure that I get it, but at the same time, there's so much work that goes into being a musician, and I really function with routine. For me to have my alarm set at six o'clock or six 30, sometimes I nuance it between the half hour and just always get up at the same or similar time, have my cup of coffee, have my water, do my exercise, have all this stuff done, have my practice session at this time, or I have a rehearsal that I have to run to. So if I have to run to that, then where's my practice session going to be? I'm very meticulous with my schedule, mainly because opportunities just sometimes get emailed to you. It's like, can you go do this? I mean, I am a part of the American Brass Quintet, and I do a lot of chamber music through Julliard, but I'm also a freelancer.

(01:12:03):

So if I get an email saying, Hey, can you be here for that? Can you travel for this? Can you do this solo opportunity? Can you do that? Sometimes I'm not preparing that rep all the time, so I have to have time allotted in my schedule, and I'm a morning person, so my brain actually works better for trombone wise and getting that warmup in and getting that routine. It's in the morning for me. Yeah. Well, actually, it's funny when you said to do it at nine o'clock, I was like, oh crap, eight 30 would've been better, but that's all good.

Leah Roseman (01:12:39):

Well, I knew I had a show last night, and I have to get my walk in. I have my routine too.

Hillary Simms (01:12:44):

Well, actually, it's funny you say that. So when it came out that I was going to be part of the American Brass Quintet, and the New York Times wanted to do an article about it and just a couple of different news outlets. I was in China with Ricky. So all of the interviews that I did were over the phone and usually around seven o'clock in the morning for me and late into the evening for them just to try to manage that time difference.

Leah Roseman (01:13:10):

So I'm curious about your practice routine. How do you keep track of practicing all the techniques you need to have at your disposal?

Hillary Simms (01:13:17):

Well, I do the same routine over and over and over and over again. Like I said, I'm a routine maintenance kind of gal, but it was explained to me at one point that you have to view your technique and what you have to do on the instrument as this dam covering this big tsunami coming in. So basically the tsunami of water is just where it highlights all the weaknesses in your playing. So it's like if I have to prepare a Brass Quintet concert, our concerts run almost two hours, and that can be really taxing on the face. So I have to always make sure my endurance is up, which is why I'm so meticulous about my routine. So it's like, okay, endurance stuff. Okay, plug that hole in the dam, make sure there's no water seeping through. Oh, we're playing Book of Brass. I really need to make sure my double tongueing and my single tongueing are very clear and articulate in the center of the tone articulation. So I have my routine, and then I basically will run the gamut of what I have to do to keep this dam from falling apart. But if I have anything specific coming up where I need to really make sure that this is on the game or on the money, then I'll focus on that little area more than others.

Leah Roseman (01:14:34):

What kind of specific things do you do for endurance? I'm curious about that.

Hillary Simms (01:14:38):

We have these Bordogni vocalizes. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I actually usually say a Bordogni a day. We'll keep your endurance up. I do. I have the book one, book two, book three. When you get to the later books, they're usually two or three pagers. They're actually small solos. And for me, I'll play through, at least I choose one a day, and I'll play through it, and then I'll take it down the octave and then I'll put it in tenor clef, and then I'll just keep doing it until eventually I feel a little bit of that fatigue just here in the corners. And to me it's like, okay, I'm not doing anything damaging. There's no pain, just I can feel a little of the fatigue. So I always make sure that I'm playing through one of those. And then on top of all the rest of the work that I do, just to make sure that we're training, these are muscles. You have to go to the gym, you have to stay in shape, you have to work these muscles. You have to feel sometimes a little bit of burn to build that muscle. And so I like to do these vocalises on the face. You have to engage everything that you're working on to play them. And yeah, if you play it long enough, you're going to feel that, oh yeah, I'm working this out. So it just helps with the endurance.

Leah Roseman (01:15:54):

We didn't really address the fact that you're a woman, but I think in the brass world, it still, there's more men than women. This is what I've noticed.

Hillary Simms (01:16:02):

You are correct. Your observations are correct. The ratio is definitely off in the gender realm of brass playing. But yeah, no, I am a woman. I'm female identifying, and I play the trombone.

Leah Roseman (01:16:18):

So at what point did you realize that you were in the minority

Hillary Simms (01:16:23):

To tag Newfoundland back into this? When I was growing up, all the leadership roles in music for my choir, for my band, my teachers, my private teacher, they're all women. Vincenza Etchegary was my band director. Kelly Walsh is my choir director, later Maria Conkey, my vocal teacher was a woman, Dr. Karen Bulmer. She plays tuba at MUN. She's the low brass prof. She was my teacher for three, four years. So everyone was a woman. I didn't realize that this was the thing. And then I went to McGill and there were other women trombones in the studio, but primarily it was all guys. And that was fine. That didn't really bother me too much. No one treated me differently. But it was my first year after I just completed my first year at McGill, I went to a summer program, and it was the first time I went to a summer program, and I was the only girl in a studio of 22 guys and a male prof.

(01:17:27):

And I started realizing that people just assumed I wouldn't be able to play as well as other people, so that when I stood up and I did play and I was half good, everyone was always surprised every single time. And that eventually started to kind of weigh down on you. It's like, why can't you just assume I'm good? We all assume you're good. But yeah, so I think I was 18 when I first started really noticing it, and then it follows you throughout your career. You need to prove yourself, oh, if there's only ever allowed to be one woman trombonist, that's cool, or whatever, you end up being more competitive with the other women, which is the exact opposite of what we need to be doing. We need to be encouraging each other in this business. But yeah, I had some life lessons learned along the way, but yeah, it's still very prevalent out there that it is a male dominated industry.

(01:18:28):

And it's funny, I'm touring with the American Brass Quintet, and we do Q&As one of the questions, it's hilarious. People say like, oh, Kevin, the trumpet player, were like, what was your favorite piece? Or Rojak? What's the commissioning process? And then they get to mean, and they're like, this is a question for Hillary. What's it like being a woman? It's like, well, I have a period and I cry sometimes, but otherwise, my experience is no different than anyone. So it is one of these things, sorry to be a little blunt with that, but I, there's, I'm just here to play trombone. And yes, I am a woman, and unfortunately, we live in a society where I'm a female trombonist, whereas my colleagues are not male trombonists. So gender shouldn't play a part in any of this, right? But it does. So once we can take gender out of it and we just say, oh, she's a trombonist. They're a trombonist, he's a trombonist. Whatever's a trombonist, then I think we've made some progress. But right now I'm a female trombonist.

Leah Roseman (01:19:33):

And in terms of being a role model and mentor, have younger women talk to you about what it means to see you in your role?

Hillary Simms (01:19:40):

I have had a lot of younger students reach out to me, and it's been very humbling experience. I mean, like I said, I just playing my instrument. I like playing it well. I like doing what I can. And I didn't realize that by me getting the job that I got, when you get a job, you're like, woo, I'm employed. You don't really think about the social political aspect of how other people might view you. And it's been very positive, I will say. And I'm very humbled, and I understand that being in a leadership position does have a bit more of a role to make sure that you are still being seen, you're still being heard, and you're representing well, and trying to be a role model, like I said, just trying to play trombone. But I am a bit more conscious about people raised and broke the glass ceiling way before I ever played trombone.

(01:20:40):

I'm following in their footsteps. So it's my responsibility to make sure that people following in my footsteps also have that equal opportunity. So it's like, I think I read, it was a quote somewhere, it's like, it's great to break the glass ceiling, but it's only good if you actually put people in that elevator with you when you rise up. So I, I'm trying as best I can. I'm still new in my position. I'm still figuring out what all this means for myself. But yeah, it's been very, very humbling. And I mean, I respond to all the messages that I can from these students. Yeah.

Leah Roseman (01:21:16):

And you'd spoken about one of your mentors, Gord Wolfe, but also in Chicago, Northwestern Michael Mulcahy. I know you started your doctorate. Have you suspended that now that you're so busy?

Hillary Simms (01:21:28):

No. I am still a full-time student, but busy. I wear many different hats. I like to stay busy. No, I, I'm in the qualifying exam portion of my doctorate, so I finished all my coursework. Now I have to do these exams to be all but dissertation, so I'm in that area right now. But yeah, no, I studied with Professor Mulcahy while I was at Northwestern, and he's definitely become a mentor to me. I mean, I look up to him in a way that he's doing exactly what we're saying that needs to be done in orchestras right now. If you have a sub opportunity branch out, don't go for the person that you've used for the past 20 years. Find out who's new in your city, try to find some more diversity. It's out there. And he has never hesitated in hiring me to sit next to him in the Chicago Symphony. I mean, I just went on a three week tour with them in Europe in January. So I've always appreciated that part of him, and he's always been a very strong champion of my career and just really mentoring me and making me see more significant details in music. And yeah, no, I had a great time studying with him at Northwestern. And yeah,

Leah Roseman (01:22:47):

It's arguably one of the most famous brass sections in the world. The Chicago Symphony.

Hillary Simms (01:22:52):

Yeah.

Leah Roseman (01:22:52):

Do you remember the first time you played with them, what that was like?

Hillary Simms (01:22:55):

The first time I played with them was for Shostakovich Five, and I wasn't even supposed to play on that piece. I was supposed to do, I think a Glinka Overture, something, I forget, but it was winter, I think, maybe January or February or something last year. And it was amazing. It was so cool. And the only reason why I got put on the Shostakovich was because my teacher Professor Mulcahy, I think he had an appointment or something, and he had to be late for the rehearsal just to start. He was missing the first 15, 20 minutes of the rehearsal. And he asked, he was like, if you're going to be there, can you quickly just sit in with the section and play? And I just remember being like, yes, I most certainly can. This is amazing. I'm here in the middle, Jay Friedman sitting next to me, and Charlie Vernon sitting next to me.

(01:23:52):

I'm like, I'm here. And we start playing Shosti five. And I was like, okay, now I can understand why people get so excited with orchestras. This is so cool. And then, of course, okay, he walks up on stage and I have to leave the seat. And he was like, did you get to this movement yet? And I was like, no. He was like, oh. And he called someone backstage to pull up an extra chair, and then I sat in the section with him next to me and Charlie, and then Jay was still there. I was like, this is even cooler. And at the end of rehearsal, I basically just doubled the second trombone part with him. And at the end of the rehearsal, he was like, you got the gig. And I was like, what does that mean? He was like, do you want to just play in this section for this piece as well? We could always just use a bit more power. And in my head, I'm thinking, Chicago Symphony trombone section does not need more power. But anyways, I mean, this is what I mean. He was a great mentor in that he always created opportunity for me. So that was my first concert, was getting to sit in that section with them. So cool.

Leah Roseman (01:24:49):

What a great story. Just a couple questions about creativity. So I know you sing jazz and you do some improvisation. Do you also play jazz trombone a little bit?

Hillary Simms (01:25:01):

I have played in jazz bands, but I never want to improvise on my instrument more than just playing for myself. I feel like there are people who've really specialized in that, and they're so good. I'll just stick to my little corner of the trombone world. But no, I love playing jazz trombone. If I were to ever be in a jazz band, I'd want that third trombone spot because you never have to solo. But yeah, no, I love it all.

Leah Roseman (01:25:30):

Well, to close this out, Hillary, maybe if you could just reflect on teaching. You mentioned masterclasses, how you get students to sing, but in your overall approach, working with students,

Hillary Simms (01:25:41):

What is my overall approach?

Leah Roseman (01:25:43):

Yeah, if you could talk to that. Is that too general?

Hillary Simms (01:25:47):

It's a little general, I mean.

Leah Roseman (01:25:50):

Okay, well, we talked about routine and your approach to, but obviously every student is different, but you're teaching students at a very high level at Julliard.

Hillary Simms (01:25:58):

Yeah.

Leah Roseman (01:25:58):

So are there commonalities? Are there things you think they all need to really keep in that you focus on?

Hillary Simms (01:26:05):

Yes. Actually, thank you for specifying a bit more. I could have gone off on articulation, slide technique, but something that I've seen in every student, it doesn't matter what instrument you play, where you go to school, the lack of compassion or self-compassion that students have is I think, actually the biggest thing that we need to practice. And I noticed that because it was something that I really struggled with. And if any of my teachers are listening to this at this point, they will. They're probably laughing because this is something that I really had to work through is not only do you have to love what you're doing, but you have to love yourself while doing it. You have to be kind to yourself. And something I'm noticing with all students is that because music and our playing is such a personal thing, we really tie our identities to what we do.

(01:27:02):

So when you're going through a conservatory or you're going through a school or you're getting lessons, your teacher is specifically there to help get you to that next level. And usually that comes with critique of your playing. And so then people then translate that into critique of yourself. And then you are your own worst critic. So if you're constantly going through your own self doubt, and then you're having a teacher saying, okay, well, you should try this, or You really need to work on this, it all just translates into your head as like, I'm not good enough, or I'll never do this. Or just thoughts that can really be degrading to what you're doing and just not productive. So something that I actually talk to a lot of students about one-on-one is, and maybe I'm paying this forward from lessons that some of my teachers gave me, but be kind to yourself.

(01:27:54):

If you love what you're doing, remember how you started doing it? We all picked up our instruments when we were 9, 10, 11, 12 years old. If you're a violinist, maybe you were three, but at some point you picked up your instrument and you kept doing it because you loved it. It was fun. You went to band practice with your friend, you went to youth orchestra with your friends. Remember that feeling? Remember that play aspect and put that into your practice sessions. That's why a lot of the videos I post of my practice sessions are me singing and jamming along to a metronome because I have to keep it fun for myself or else what am I doing?

(01:28:30):

A lot of the times I'll listen back to those videos and I'm like, oh yeah, you really weren't in time with that metronome or you weren't doing this. And it's like, okay, there's my self critical part, but was I having fun? Did I like my practice session? Sure. Are there aspects of that play coming through my music? Sure. And I think that's something that everyone, even if you're not a student needs to remember, is that it still needs to maintain a certain level of humor, comedy, fun. We're classical musicians, but not everything is serious in life. And if we take things so seriously, we're never going to be happy with it. So I usually take that as kind of my overall philosophy of teaching and then apply it to, okay, technique to this, to that. It has to be fun, it has to be. Or else you're going to fall out in love, fall out of love with it, or you're going to get that burnout, and that's not what we're here to do. We're here to just share what we have. So yeah,

Leah Roseman (01:29:28):

Beautifully expressed.

Hillary Simms (01:29:30):

Oh, thank you.

Leah Roseman (01:29:31):

So thanks so much for this today. Really great to talk to you.

Hillary Simms (01:29:33):

Yeah, thanks for asking me. This was fun.

Leah Roseman (01:29:37):

I hope you enjoyed this episode. Pleased to share this with your friends and check out episodes you may have missed@leiaroseman.com. If you could buy me a coffee to support this series, that would be wonderful. The link is in the description. Have a wonderful week.